The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast

The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 107 – Creating Reader Engagement with Tiers

Last year, Autumn rolled out a pretty unique system for organizing and encouraging engagement with her reader email list through a tiering system. Would it work for you?

We go over the details along with the pros and cons - like "Yay, readers sharing your books on social media while website stats skyrocket" to "OMG, I have to write how many emails to do this?" 🤣  Check it out and see if you find a piece that will help you reach and motivate your readers in a new way!

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Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Narrator (2s):
You're listening to the Am writing fantasy podcast in today's publishing landscape. You can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now onto the show with your hosts, Autumn Birt, and Jesper Schmidt. Hello, I am. Yes ma'am. And I'm autumn.

Jesper (36s):
This is episode 107 of the am writing fantasy podcast. And today we have some interesting thoughts to share with you. I guess I could say that it's a way to almost gave me your email list. Would that be a fair way to describe it?

Autumn (57s):
As long as readers don't get offended by that kind of a scheme, but yeah, it's a way of maybe strategizing the best way to market books so that readers keep buying them and become fans with a bit of a game to it.

Jesper (1m 16s):
Yeah. What I meant this it's like, it's a bit like engaging your list with like a tiering structure, which is similar to what you see in games, right? So you can sort of level up to the next year. Yeah. But, but more on that in a bit, first, I wanted to hear if you have actually survived the snowstorm or right up there, automotive was close.

Autumn (1m 39s):
It was very close. We are so lucky in many ways, because this snowstorm that of which you speak was originally supposed to miss us in just smear my parents who live in Pennsylvania, but Vermont up where I'm at, they thought it was going to move off the coast. Well, yeah, no, it came inland and we got over 25 inches of snow from nothing bare ground to two over two feet. But just North of us, just North, they got guests. How many feet of snow from zero to,

Jesper (2m 16s):
I have no idea.

Autumn (2m 19s):
Feet, eight inches, four feet. So that would have been up to my chest. No two feet it's been hard enough, but especially since we live in a small cabin that we actually don't drive to, we have to walk about a thousand feet through the woods to get to our cabin. And that's challenging enough in two feet of snow, but four feet. I mean, my dog you've seen pictures of my dog. He's like, what? 18 inches? Tall jumps like a little rabbit. It looks like a little wee, a Wolverine, you know, jumping through this still. I can't imagine we have to dig a tunnel for him to go.

Jesper (2m 59s):
And I was just about to Say he needs to make some tunnels,

Autumn (3m 3s):
But Oh, it's all getting cleared out and packed down. And it's actually, it's sad. I, I should be very upset because it's supposed to rain on Christmas day and we'll probably end up with bare ground again. But yes, I cannot wait to get rid of the snow for a little bit. That'd be fine with me. Yeah. But yeah.

Jesper (3m 20s):
So yes, as the listener, as you can hear, we are recording a bit just before Christmas here. So that's why we're talking about a snowstorm. So if you're listening to this and think of that snowstorm, then it's not because you miss something very important. It's because I'm trying to do a bit of free recording because yeah. We'll like most people we would like to take a bit of time off during Christmas holidays. But on the other hand, we don't want you to miss any episodes on Mondays since we've now been going for, I think more than two years releasing podcast episodes every Monday. So we're not gonna miss any now. So that's why we are prerecording a bit. So you can get some new episodes, even though we are taking a bit of time off.

Jesper (4m 3s):
So, well, that's the explanation why you're talking about while there might not be, well, maybe there won't be a snowstorm in January who knows?

Autumn (4m 10s):
No, please. No, no, no, no, but you're still unpacking. So let's get away from weather too. How are things going in the new apartment? You you've officially handed over the house, hopefully you're settling in.

Jesper (4m 25s):
Yeah. Well, I don't think there's that much news to say other than it's the same situation as last time in the last episode, my wife has been away. So that also means that the unpacking has sort of stopped a bit because it's pointless of me unpacking. And then she comes home and say, I know I don't want those pieces there and then reduce the whole thing. Right. So it's just sort of waiting a bit until she comes home. So it's still the same situation, but in between all the moving and honestly, I guess in the future episodes, we need to get away from talking about moving all the time Then for you guys. Yeah, it is true. But instead I wanted to mention that last night I finished watching a series on Netflix called the haunting of Bly Mannor.

Autumn (5m 12s):
Oh yeah. You mentioned it. Yeah. I couldn't help. But to email you right away, right afterwards before I went to sleep last night. Yeah. That's a good, that's a good series. If you're you really think of getting out your phone to let me know, it's a good series at the middle of the night. That's pretty nice.

Jesper (5m 31s):
Yeah. Yeah, because I wanted to mention it here as well because the title is perhaps slightly misleading and then again, not, but the haunting, well, it is a ghost story as such, but, and I guess it's also pitched as sort of a horror series or horror story, I guess, but it's really not. So even, you know, if, if you dear listener thinking like I hate horror stories and I don't want to okay. Bear with me just a moment here, because there are huge gaps here and there, but they are very, very minor. I it's not jumps gas like that. That might be a few pieces.

Jesper (6m 13s):
I think there's nine episodes. And let me say that maybe twice doing all of those nine episodes, there's something that might scare you slightly it, depending on how you are. Well, how we use your scale, I guess. But so they are here and there, but they are very far between, because the focus of the series is really on the characters and their story. And in case you haven't checked it out yet, I really wanted to, to make you aware of this one, because it is really worth the watch. Yeah. So just say it emailed, but I think why are emailed you to be honest? I think it was because I just watched the ending of it.

Jesper (6m 56s):
And first of all, usually something that is categorized as a horror story, it's like the endings, most of the time, it was pretty bad too. And this one just, it actually moved me. It was like, I was a bit like, okay, it actually hit me a bit in a very good way. Excellent. You know, and that happens very, very rarely. So yeah, it's definitely five stars from me. And that recommendation has now been passed on to our listeners, everyone.

Autumn (7m 32s):
Well, I thought it was interesting. I did look it up and I saw that it was from the same director as the haunting of Hill house, which you also recommended and we watched it and he said something very serious, similar about not being too jumpy or scary. And I do remember watching the first episode and my husband turns and looks at me, he's like, I thought this wasn't supposed to be scary. So I'll let you know what he says about this.

Jesper (7m 56s):
Yeah. Okay. Well, I think personally, I think a haunting of Hill house is a bit more scary. It's not, it's not very scary compared to what you would normally categorize as a horror story, but it is a bit more scary than this one. This one is less scary. I think even excellent. I won't have to protect him all night. Excellent. No, at least, at least in my opinion, but I mean, I know, I understand her with stuff like this. Model's very, and it's very different. What people get can stomach, but I don't think it's bad at all. I just think it's a very, very good story and it's very well done. So yeah. Give it a try, check it out.

Narrator (8m 35s):
A week on the internet with the yam writing fantasy podcast.

Jesper (8m 41s):
Now we're going to talk about email list today and sit, stop there at, at, at the top and the way to market to your email list. But I also wanted to mention that we have actually finished up and released our new course on email marketing as well, Third course for a 2020, because we're recording this in 2020. So we did it all right. It does Everything from getting set up to how to write onboarding sequences, how you should be thinking about your emails. How often do you send the emails? What is a good open rate, a good click through rate and all that good stuff that everybody always asks and wants to know.

Jesper (9m 25s):
Absolutely. It's all covered.

Autumn (9m 28s):
Yeah. And I'm so, and actually I have to admit I was wrong. This is our fourth course for a curse. Yeah. Course for 2020. So that's, it makes it even better, but no, it's, it is an excellent course. If you have questions on how to talk to readers or some of the stuff I'm talking about, and we're going to be discussing later in this episode, and you want to know how to market, to readers and what all this stuff means, and what's a good list and how to engage them. It's all in there and it covers everything. So that'll really help you out.

Jesper (10m 3s):
And in terms of how to get access to this course, it's slightly different from what you would normally expect. So it's not really a cost that we are going to advertise, like our ultimate fantasy writers guides, which is our comprehensive HSE writing course or the world building costs that we just released or opened up for quite recently here. Yeah. But those, we promote on something like a six month cycle, but this one we're not. So the way to actually get into this course, if you are interested is to first sign up for our free self publishing success course.

Jesper (10m 43s):
And by the end of the free course, you will then be given a link to the email course. And the reason we structured it this way was that the free course actually puts all the fundamentals in place. And that will have you operating from the right position when you get into the email marketing stuff. So, yeah. So that's how we decided to structure it. And we've added the link to the free course in the show notes. I know we've mentioned the free course a few times on the past couple of episodes. So this is probably going to be the last time in a good while that we're going to add that link to the show notes. But for the last time here we have added it.

Jesper (11m 25s):
And so if you haven't checked it out already make sure to sign up as soon as you listen to this episode and at least get the free cost cost completed. And then at the end of that, you can always decide if you want to do the email is course or not, that's fully up to you.

Autumn (11m 41s):
Yes. That's sort of like the finishing school for the free course, but definitely the self-publishing success course will teach you the fundamentals for free that you need to know to be running it. And the email will be the capstone that really will make your marketing just shine

Narrator (12m 2s):
Today's topic.

Jesper (12m 4s):
So autumn, you have this great idea on how to operate a mailing lists. Different way than what is considered traditionally. So Pat, you could Start out by more like explaining the high level concept before we get into details.

Autumn (12m 20s):
I think that sounds like a good place to start other than saying my brain squirrely. And I've always got to do things different, but did I ever tell you what actually gave me the idea? The little problem I was nibbling on that made me want to figure this one out.

Jesper (12m 37s):
Ah, you know, this is one of those questions that you should, Because if I say No, I'm not sure I can't remember it. And that sounds like I didn't pay attention.

Autumn (12m 50s):
Okay. That's fair enough. Well, you should answer for what the readers or the listeners need to, to hear so that they can hear the story.

Jesper (12m 60s):
So no, at all, I'm sure you have never said anything about it.

Autumn (13m 4s):
I really don't know if I have, so that's fair enough. But you know, when you go into most email service providers, as you're working on stuff, they often give you tips. And there's one that usually says, Hey, did you know, open rates and response rates go up. If you just send to a subsection of your list and I'm like, well, that's nice, but I'm sending to readers. How do you speak a subsection of readers?

Jesper (13m 31s):
I mean the readers, what do you, how are you going to segregate them into smaller lists? And I must've chewed on that for a good four to six months. Wondering how I could, how, if this is such a good thing that this email service provider is telling me, I should be doing it. And it's going to totally revolutionize the way I send emails. How can I do it? How can I make that happen? So, yeah, that's what spawned this idea. And I finally, I finally came up with something and that is what I eventually did send to you saying, am I just crazy? Or do you think this might work?

Jesper (14m 9s):
And you said, no. Yeah. I actually still very much liked the idea because I think there is something about it, but Become clear as we talk through this stuff. I'm not sure We've worked out how to actually do it well. So this is more like also for the listener. It's, it's A bit more like a brainstorming Kind of conversation, I guess, and maybe will trigger some thoughts in the listeners. And, and I don't, I don't know.

Autumn (14m 46s):
Yes. Maybe it'll inspire you into doing something different with your lists. Maybe he, while you and I are talking Yesper, we'll out, what kind of went right. And what went wrong with my experiment? Because as I see in our Patreon page, I love living my life life as an experiment. So everyone else knows what not to do or the benefits of what I did. So, you know, it saves everyone else. Some agony, I sacrifice myself for that, but what I realized, so I have to admit this was set up well for me and other listeners, other authors might have to think about teaming up for this to happen because I have three series of books.

Autumn (15m 27s):
One is the main entry point to all of the books. I've written one that is set after that initial series. It's in the same world and the same characters. I have one, that's an entirely different genre that the readers who read it, absolutely they're like mega fans, but you know, it's not even fantasy. It's more post-apocalyptic. So it's completely different. It fits what I'm writing now. But then I have two novellas that are in completely different storylines and also a short story, compilation novel. So I've got three series and three sort of a standalone books. And I realized that besides having a lot of books out, I can't keep them straight half the time, but I could actually create four tiers of readers.

Autumn (16m 13s):
And that's sort of what triggered everything. I could have a tier of people who finished that first series, a tier of readers who finished the first end, the second that's related to it, a tier of readers who have read the other unrelated post-apocalyptic series and then a final tier who has basically literally read everything I have written in the fiction world. I, I spared everyone, the nonfiction. I thought that was only fair. So that's it. I finally, I figured out my tears that I could break up my reader list too. And I gave them names. I did book explorers for the new arrivals.

Autumn (16m 54s):
So spell binders for the second ones, the fifth order, which relates to the main, the first series. It relates to my Epic fantasy series and the high counsel for the ones who have finished everything because they have some special powers why they ended up being called the high council. And it also came straight from my fantasy world too.

Jesper (17m 17s):
Hmm. So how, how were you in practical terms? How were you keeping track of who had read everything and who hadn't and what they have read and so forth. Right.

Autumn (17m 28s):
So funny, it's like, it's like, you can read my mind or, or the list of notes I have in front of me, because that is actually the next bullet point. We're so good this way. I, because I hadn't been keeping track on where people were coming in or emails I'd gotten from readers saying, Hey, I finished this book. I thought it was great. So I went ahead and I asked them what, what they had read, where they had read and told them, Hey, is this really important? I need to know. And so I had them segregate themselves. And then anyone who did not email, email me back or didn't, it was a survey. I will talk about it later, but I actually use mailer Lite and they have a very cool survey that allows you to tag people if they click on things.

Autumn (18m 10s):
So I use that so function, and if people didn't click on anything, I just put them in the lowest tier book, explorers and figured they had to sort themselves out if they did to get their act together. So that's how I sorted everyone out. I made them do it themselves and figured that was a good baseline to start from. And I did, I ended up with, and there's a few people, you know, you know who your mega fans are. It's not like there was hon I wish there were hundreds of mega fans that I didn't know all their names intimately, but I have, I have a core group that I know have read everything. And so it was basically like, Hey, by the way, I'm just putting you over here. So those were easy. Yeah. Yeah.

Jesper (18m 47s):
Did you then also think about adding in some, you know, this kind of questionnaire in the onboarding sequence or the end of the onboarding sequence to, to basically figure out new readers or did you more just track where they came in from and then say, okay, if you came in from here, that means you've read this book. So I'll put you in that tier or did everybody just go into the lowest tier from the beginning? Or how did, how did you do that?

Autumn (19m 13s):
Well, after I let them segregate themselves, the new arrivals would basically automatically go into the lowest tier, the book explorers, unless they were picking up. I did have an offer in my first book to pick up the second book. And so if they came to me through that second book in that sequence I had at, Hey, pick up the final book in the series with this coupon code. And if they picked it up through that, I immediately put them in the next higher tier, because I assume if they're buying book three, I can pretty much assume they're going to go finish it because I know my readthrough rate between book two and book, if people buy book two, my readthrough rate to book three is a hundred percent. So I know they're going to finish it.

Autumn (19m 54s):
So I just dump them into the next higher tier. Yeah.

Jesper (19m 60s):
Because I know as well for myself, for example, I mean, sometimes I ended up signing up for some authors email list, but in reality, I might have read several of the person's books already, but for whatever reason I never got around or didn't decide to sign up until now or something like, so it could happen that somebody comes in and I've actually read several books, especially in our, you, you have several different series going, so it might have read one full series and then coming into another series and then say, Oh, okay, cool. I'll sign up for this stuff here for whatever, you know, so that, I guess that's a bit of the challenge here in terms of labeling them correctly from the beginning.

Autumn (20m 42s):
It is. And I try to, there was actually the reason I wanted to do it this way is because really does come down to marketing. So if people were in the first section, I was going to market to them, I was going to give them expert excerpts and coupons to the second series. And if they were in the second tier, I was going to give them coupons and excerpts for that unrelated non fantasy series. And then if they had finished that one, I'd be making sure I gave them excerpts to either what I was writing or the standalone novellas. So by knowing that I could target what I was sending them and the materials and the coupons, and trying to generate that interest to go to the next highest one.

Autumn (21m 25s):
And I put moving between tears totally in their hands, they were supposed to contact me via social media. Preferably they could send an email. Obviously email always works. They have my email, but it was just, Hey, give me a shout out on social media that you finished the final book in this series and that you want to go to the Spellbinders or you want to go to the fifth order. Tell me, tell people that's fine. And that's, and I'll happily give you a like a, you know, a little shout out and I will move you to the next year and you'll get access to a, it was a new webpage. Each of them had a special webpage that was hidden on my website, that they could only access through the emails or through, you know, going and saving that link.

Autumn (22m 7s):
And on that page would be some social media posts that they could share some images if they wanted to download them and a coupon code for the month to a book that was discounted. That was kind of, you know, saying, Hey, I want you to go read this series. So you're getting that book discounted this month. And it was all very much structured and targeted that each one was just really kind of dialed into like, this is where I want you to move to. And it's in your control to move up, to get ed with each level, they were supposed to get an only in a better coupon, but I wasn't going to give any free books away. Like a paperback giveaway wouldn't happen to the lowest tier. They'd have to be at least in the second or the third tier before I started running some contests and giveaways and some kind of big, you know, brouhaha stuff like that.

Jesper (22m 58s):
Yeah. I like this tie in with the social media stuff, because then that gets word of mouth going automatically. Right. So I really liked that, but this is also why I labeled it as a gamification at the top of the episode, because it is a bit like, okay, you are this level and then you can move up to level. Number two, once you get more. Well, let's say once you've read more. Right. And then you watch the level three and you're getting benefits and so on. Right. So, yeah. And I think that not To everybody, but that appeals to some people a that the gaming people, at least they like to leveling up stuff. Right. And, But did you, did you Sort of share that structure thing with them at the lower level?

Jesper (23m 42s):
So once they come in and do, do they get information about, okay, is how I'm structuring things and once you've done decent, these things, you can move up and then this is what you're going to get at that point or something like that. Did you do anything like that?

Autumn (23m 55s):
Yes. So it was on each email. One of the neat things again about MailerLite is I could conveniently, instead of sending four different emails every month or every newsletter. So that's twice a month for me that were targeted to each group, I could send one newsletter and Miller has a function where you can hide certain things or just have it shown to people who are in a certain subsection. So I could just go ahead and generate everything in one newsletter, even though it looked like chaos. If you could see everything once it, if you were just in the lowest tier, you would just see the stuff you needed. And in part of that would be like, Hey, don't forget to move up to the Spellbinder and get, you know, get access to giveaways and get access to better coupons.

Autumn (24m 39s):
You have to do this. And it would also be on the webpage that they would land on would be a little announcement at the top saying, Hey, don't forget to get better access to this and that you need to, you know, follow these steps below. And again, that's sort of why there were even availability of being able to download pictures. I tried to make it super easy, so they didn't want to go to if they bought everything online, they didn't have any actual photos of books. They could. I gave them some paperback photos and things that they could use. And I would change them out every once in a while, because I'm a graphic artist and that's what I do for fun. So it was, it was all set up for them. So it's as painless as possible for them.

Autumn (25m 20s):
At least for me, it ended up as you can imagine four different levels. It was a lot of work. And of course you still have that. I remember I mentioned that high council, they have literally read everything I've written. I mean, even short stories, a few of them, they're just the voracious. It's crazy. They're little sharks and Paranas, they want to read it and just read everything. I love him to death. And so for them, I mean, I can't offer them a coupon. They literally have everything I've written. So for them, their ultimate reward and why they were called the high council is they got exclusive access to what I was currently writing. I thought about a Facebook, but you know, I'm my love hate thing with Facebook.

Autumn (26m 1s):
So I ended up going with a small forum plugin. So I would have some stuff where, Hey, we can talk about books. You like, I could talk about what I'm currently writing plots. I could give snippets, I could talk about characters. And if I had a question or if they had a question about something they saw, we could actually have a discussion. They could help me problem solve some plot problems as I went. So this was why I called them the high council, because that's how the high council in my fantasy world, you know, functions, they are the ones who basically rule everything. So this was going to be my select tier of readers who really knew my writing and knew, really were passionate about what I was doing.

Autumn (26m 42s):
And they would have complete to helping me out as I wrote. And they were also guaranteed to be, get the copy of the next book before it hits stores, they would get access that, you know, no one else could get. And that's why they were, that was a very special function for them. And another benefit of, of all of this is that you, you also get rid of the freebie seekers, meaning that when you do new launches or you're looking for an advanced reader team and stuff like that, you can start itching this to the higher tiers so that you actually getting people who, you know, have actually read your books. And they're not on your list just to capture free copies of advanced reader copy.

Autumn (27m 25s):
But they actually there because they are reading your stuff, right. And that's one of the challenges you have with the recruiting, a launch team is that how do you ensure that you're just not getting a bunch of people who just want a free book and half of them is never going to leave that review that you would like them to, to leave once the book launches, or they are never going to give you the feedback that you asking for or whatever it may be that you're looking for a launch team to do.

Jesper (27m 54s):
Right? I mean, for us, we have started to say that in order to get onto our launch teams, you have to send us a link to two reviews. You left on two of our books. And if you haven't, then you're not going to get onto the launch list. So that's another way of doing it. But I do think, I do think there's a good point in trying to make sure that whoever you allow onto a launch team or an advanced reader team or whatever you want to call it is people whom, you know, have actually in one way or another done something in return. You know, that it's it's, otherwise you will get those people who just, they figured out the system, right?

Jesper (28m 34s):
It's like, okay, I'll get onto the author's email list. And then I will get invites to advanced reader teams. And I'll say yes, and then I don't have ever to buy a book again. Right. There are those peoples out there.

Autumn (28m 48s):
It is. Unless you're really paying attention, you can easily. I mean, as you know, I just told you that I, I just put out an art call for my next series. And I did find it amusing. How many people said, Oh, I've never read one of your books. I'm like, really why I read her list. But again, like you said, that they came in either they're so new, they haven't read much. And they just signed up to get a free book and they haven't finished it yet. And they're willing to go get another free book. Of course, it's an addiction is an addiction for me. I try not to read too much because I would just read all day if I could. So this did I, I told people flat out, if you're in the lowest tier, I'm not going to ask you to be an arc reader.

Autumn (29m 29s):
You're not going to be part of a launch team. You have to at least finish a series. And then when you're in that second tier and the third tier, you will pretty much you'll be asked. And if you're on the final tier, if you're in the high order, of course, of course, you're on the launch team. You've read everything well, how could I not reward you with that?

Jesper (29m 50s):
Yeah, but I guess,

Autumn (29m 52s):
Yeah. I mean, the really question is we talk about it being not early at a failed experiment, but I mean, the question is, did it work and why didn't it work? Or what were the pros and cons, I guess, yeah, let's go down there. Let's go down that rabbit hole. So I would say the first few months were a complete success. I was pretty thrilled. Actually. A lot of readers went and picked up the discounted books. And the nice thing about that is those were books. I was self hosting selling through my website. So I was not getting, you know, it wasn't through another retailer. There was no royalties taken out this except for taxes. This was a hundred percent sales straight to me, which is fantastic.

Autumn (30m 36s):
And it was teaching readers that you can go to my website and buy books directly from me. They've set up the account they're already there. So that's kind of a win-win that was very nice to see so many people going and hitting those pages and taking advantage of that. And I did have people going on social media if they finished. And some of them were totally into it saying, yep, lead I'm ready for the Spellbinders. I am ready for this. Even my niece did it. It was fantastic. So it was definitely, and I had a few people who just chose, Hey, you know, emailed, I just finished this one. I want to go to the next one. Cause I did.

Jesper (31m 13s):
I mean, I even to do this correctly, the information to like move up a tier should be in the back of the final book to move up into your saying, Hey, don't forget, you can go do this.

Autumn (31m 24s):
Now that would, that was a tie in, I didn't bother going and doing. Cause that was a lot of work at the time. So I didn't do that, but that would be another thing I could do to make it more of a smooth flowing system to remind people, Hey, you finished this book, you deserve more rewards. So go let people know and move up to the next year. So that was good. There was some definitely some success and it was a lot of fun and it was neat to see it in action and readers responding. And the nice thing is because also with people going to certain pages on my website, I was getting the SEO boost. So I have people going from your email, going to your website, which helps your email standing, you know, with your email marketer, it's raising the level, their email platforms are saying, Hey, you know, people like this email provider, they're clicking the links.

Autumn (32m 14s):
This is not spam. So it's showing up more in their email accounts. And then my personal website, SEO jumps up because I have a few hundred people going to my website two days every month, if not more often. So that's another benefit. That's fantastic. My standing went up, I still have a few things that I started on my website and then moved to am writing fantasy and never removed them from my website because the links are still out there. And I still get them hitting my website before I'm writing fantasy sometimes because I boosted the SEO of my website so much through the system, which was, Hey, that's kind of cool. Readers are finding me through just website searches score, but Oh my gosh, it's so much work.

Autumn (33m 1s):
I, as you can say, I've phased this out for several reasons, but one of them was definitely let, unless you're going to hire like a virtual assistant to help with changing out the website. So I'd only changed them once a month on the, so by the first of the month, a new coupon, new images, new whatever would be on the website for them to land on. So I had to do that as well as two emails during the month that were set up to four different reader tiers. And plus you have to monitor social media and, Oh my gosh, there's so much, you know, I'm not on discord. So if someone was like, you know, typing away on discord, I'm not going to see it. I tried to go on Instagram and like, you know, you can filter out for your own hashtags.

Autumn (33m 44s):
I have book hashtags that people could use my own author, hashtags people can use, but you have to be actively searching for those and checking them and making sure that they show up or that they're tagging you appropriately. Not some other poor Autumn Raven or Autumn Birts. And so it was a lot as a single individual author who was also trying to write and market to maintain every single month, especially after that first initial burst starts to die down and people are starting to see, Oh, this is the second or the third time that you, you know, given a discount to that book and I've already got it. And they haven't told me to move up to the next tier.

Autumn (34m 27s):
And of course the one series is totally non fantasy. It's, post-apocalyptic, there's no magic in it. And even though people love it, some people are like, I don't want to read something. That's, you know, gun battles on a little cipher. It's not my cup of tea. I can't piss off your readers and say, well fine. You just can't move up in the next tier. You've have those discussions with people. So I would say when it comes down to it, it's the work, especially when it slows down and people are not going every month and you're not seeing 20, 30, 40, 50 sales straight to your website. That's when it's like, yeah, this is a lot of work for, you know, 10 sales people getting discounted books.

Jesper (35m 9s):
Yay. That's wow. Hmm. Yeah. I wonder if it would be possible to, you know, if, if one could come up with some different, what should we call it? Like entrance criteria is for the different tiers and also some different rewards for the different criteria for the different tiers. Meaning that, for example, instead of coupon, because for one to do the coupon code stuff, one, you need to have lot of books. If you only let's say you only have two or three books out, well, it will, you're going to run out coupon waste pretty quick. But if there was something else you could offer them as a reward for going to a different cheer.

Jesper (35m 54s):
That's one thing. But I'm also wondering about the entrance criteria is in the sense that if you could make it so that you didn't have to go and hunt stuff down, but it more comes to you, you know, that you have to email me this or whatever in order to move up here or something so that, well, at least if you only need to monitor your inbox for, for requests to get moved up, that that at least simplifies things.

Autumn (36m 26s):
Yeah. I think I would not use the hashtags. And I would say, this is my Instagram profile. This is my Twitter profile. This is my Facebook profile tag me on one of these three and only one of these three. And I will move you up or, and, or email me, but it couldn't be both. Or, you know, it didn't have to be through a book hashtag, but cache tags are exciting, but yeah, that's a lot of, you know, to go and add your own book, hash tags and stuff was quite a difficult.

Jesper (36m 56s):
Yeah. Or alternatively, if you want people to use book has tax wherever they want to use it, that that could work. But then you would have to tell them, take a screenshot of your post and send that to me in an email. Right? That's your way of doing it now because at least then they can post wherever they normally go. They, they're not forced to use one of the platforms. Right. But again, that that's, of course also it's somewhat a man to ask somebody to post about this, then take a screenshot and then email it to me. It has to be a good reward

Autumn (37m 35s):
The way I was going. Right. It has to be, the reward has to be something where the reader really feels, I, I really want this right. If it's more like, ah, that's quite nice, then it's not going to happen. No. And it's to get that reward. I mean, short of being a free book or something, it's, it's a big ask. Readers are busy as well, and it's easy to forget or wanting to get involved in your next book. And there were definitely, you're always going to have people not taking that step and not moving forward, even though they technically deserve, you know, they've met all the other criteria to do that.

Jesper (38m 8s):
Yeah. I think the more you move up the cheapest, the more you can probably ask for them to do in terms of your criteria is because the more engaged they will be and they will, they will go to great length once they are up to tears. But I think at the lower tiers to move up from the entry level, to the, to the next year level, it has to be something extremely simple, something, you know, you can do it in one minute or probably even less like 10 seconds. It nothing but 10 seconds from you to do it. And then you can move up to you because I think you need to get to that state unless you need to make it that simple. Otherwise I think it's going to be difficult.

Autumn (38m 50s):
Yes, exactly. It was. You have to get them used to the system and excited about it and good rewards and just very clear cut instructions on how to do it. And I, like I said, I think there's something there because it really did help me for marketing because at the end of all my emails, I usually do a little excerpt. And so if I'm doing an excerpt from a book that I'm pretty sure they haven't read, but they liked the characters from the previous story, you know, I could rotate through different things or I could even do excerpts from the book I was going to give a coupon from just to, you know, you just start really trying to catch their curiosity saying, Oh yeah, I did finish that series. Oh, and look, this character what's happening in the next, in that book, you can start getting their interest and keep it going and hopefully get them to buy more books.

Autumn (39m 38s):
And like I said, in all the other side benefits, I wonder, I don't know if I would do the web pages again, but at the same time, maybe if I could just not have to update them as much, or like I said, have a virtual assistant and be like, you can get to go update that this month, make sure it's done. But before the first that would make it a little bit simpler because of the SEO results and the open rates and how much it affects, like your standing as a, you know, email account of mail in, through your mail provider. Those are really good, solid benefits that I was seeing. I could, I still have some of those lingering side effects that my email has a or my website has a very good SEO score.

Jesper (40m 21s):
I like that. That's not a bad thing at all.

Autumn (40m 25s):
My main concern really is, well, if we just ignore for a moment, the workload on the author side here, I think my main concern apart from that is you need, it's a very, very thin and fine line to walk to make sure that readers doesn't start feeling like being on the email list is a job, right. It should not feel like it's a job to be on the email list. And that's, that's where, that's where it's difficult because you start asking people to do stuff. I mean, if you were like Stephen King, then yeah. I guess maybe people will start doing stuff because they, they, they just want to get to the next years.

Jesper (41m 11s):
But when you're in a Stephen King, then you know, how do you go about creating entry criteria as to the different tiers that does not feel like a job, but actually it should feel exciting to go through it. Right. And I think that's the challenge, to be honest,

Autumn (41m 31s):
It really is. And I, that's why I think there is something in the core of this that is, could be fun and exciting and a reward for readers and help tie the author and the reader together, but sort of the work or figuring the way I went about it. It was a little too complex. So I do think it's something I would be like to boil down and try to figure out again. And I think it is especially like, like this year 20, 20, Covid just, don't ask your readers to go do anything, just give them a free book or something for Christmas. But if, if the world's of fun, if you can make it fun and, you know, especially at the higher tiers, if you're really we're giving away a paper book or paperback book or something every once in a while, and you could really make it exciting and worthwhile to engage with, that'd be good, but you're always going to have some, you know, readers are often introverts.

Autumn (42m 23s):
It shouldn't be painful for them to be on your reader list and to be a fan either if they want to be quiet, but still hopefully get a few benefits. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe we can put the question out to the listeners and see, you know, may maybe some of what we talked about here, peaks peaked your interest or inspired you. And maybe somebody has some smart ideas about how to leverage this idea. Because as I said to me, I think the idea itself has a lot of merit. And I think there was some good points in it at the same time though.

Jesper (43m 5s):
I think the return on the investment in terms of how much time you have to put in to make it work, I'm not sure it's worth it, but maybe I just haven't found the golden way of doing this three, any listeners out there, if you think there's something in here and you kind of, you think, you know what it is and you want to chat, you know, send us an email, put it in the comments. You, we could talk about this. I'm all for it. I like to brainstorm with other authors. That'd be fantastic. Come to the I'm writing fantasy group and say, Hey, I got an idea about this whole, this one from the podcast and let's chat.

Autumn (43m 46s):
Okay.

Jesper (43m 47s):
So next Monday we are stepping into the future by probably not as, but probably not as fast as you might think, but we're going to talk about artificial intelligence and how it merges with this.

Narrator (43m 57s):
I think what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to support the am writing fantasy podcast. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn Jasper on patrion.com/and writing fantasy for as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep the M writing fantasy podcast going, stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 106 – 5 Book Ideas I WON'T Write!

Welcome to the first episode of 2021. Autumn and Jesper each share 5 book ideas that they won't write.

Some of those ideas are lighthearted - and perhaps outright silly (read: hilarious) - whereas others can prove to be excellent inspiration for your own stories.

As promised here's the link to our new and free course on self-publishing: https://ultimatefantasywritersguide.com/self-publishing-success/  

Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday. 

SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST!

Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. 

Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you’ll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going. 

Read the full transcript below.

(Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Narrator (2s):
You're listening to the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. In today's publishing landscape, you can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them. Now onto the show with your hosts, Autumn Birt, and Jesper Schmidt.

Jesper (30s):
Hello, I am Jesper. And I'm Autumn. This is episode 106 of the am writing fantasy podcast. And welcome to 2021. I wish we're actually in 2021 when we're recording this, but that's okay. We're so we're getting close. We're getting very, very close. We, once again cheating with the time-traveling we can do with podcasting.

Autumn (53s):
We are so far future versions could come back, even if it's a dream. So just let me know how you know, the new year's and everything shaping up. That'd be really cool.

Jesper (1m 3s):
Yeah. And maybe, maybe a future selves could tell us a bit about if 2021 already looks better than 2020 or not.

Autumn (1m 12s):
I don't want to know. I just want to assume it's going to be better. And if it's not just don't tell me I can't handle another bad year.

Jesper (1m 21s):
Well, so today we are starting out this 2021 year with a bit of a light hearted and fun topic, because we're going to do an alternating list of five book ideas. I won't write. So this should be fun, Autumn.

Autumn (1m 37s):
I'm looking forward to it. I, like I said, I, I had, I have some comments on it later when we get there, but it was interesting. Cause I really did pull out my file by little folder. It dusted it off of ideas of things I'd picked that. And I have to say, I was like, Oh, I like that one. Ooh, I like that one. Oh, I forgot about that. So that's just home. I actually had a hard time finding five. I went to let go of, so this will be really interesting. And I went a bit of a different direction with my five list. So I just try to find some, some of the most gracious shit you can think of and say, this is definitely never going to be a story to hear what they are. They're going to inspire someone.

Autumn (2m 18s):
So where, which is going to be really awesome. And if they do, if it does, you have to let us know in the comments, if something we give you today, does it inspire something? Just, just let us know because that'd be so much fun.

Jesper (2m 31s):
Absolutely. Yeah. But how are things over at your place then?

Autumn (2m 34s):
Oh, it's pretty good. You know, right now it's December. It's a little snowy for long too, so pretty right now. And I'm still thrilled because I finished that massive website rebuild and I feel like, you know, life is maybe evening out though. I did realize because I kind of, I, you know, I'm writing this series that I'm hoping to release as soon as the first book as, as early or late February in 2021. We're just like, what two months away from when this is released very soon. And I realized like I had a missing piece I wanted to add, I woke up one morning going, Oh, I have, that's what I was missing. I have to add that and did this.

Autumn (3m 15s):
And another extra chapter kind of developed and I'm looking at it going, this is kind of big and this is the last book and I want to finish it by December 31st. So if my future self could come back and let me know if I managed to do that, please let, please do. So because I looked at it today and I'm like, I've got to write a chapter a day again, or I'm not going to finish this and maybe I should just go and edit book. What's actually book two and I don't know what to do, but I really want to finish writing this. And it's, it's definitely, I'm getting close to the climax, that final tension that's building towards a climax and I loving the storyline. I'm loving the characters, so I don't want to stop. No, I'll just finish it, finish it.

Autumn (3m 56s):
And so if I have to not, you know, published book to February, February 28th, I guess I can do that. But I really, really, really, really want to. So I don't know it's a lot going on in my head, but...

Jesper (4m 11s):
At least if you finished, then you can sort of tick that one off the list and then that's done a bit faster or something.

Autumn (4m 22s):
I will keep my fingers crossed. Cause I think that's the best plan and definitely why I've got the momentum going. I want to keep writing. So even if it's not quite a chapter a day, but with the colonies coming up and COVID locked down, I'm not going anywhere. I, you know, maybe my vacation will be writing to chapter. I did that over the weekend. I wrote 5,000 words on Saturday. I was just like, I want to write today. And I just wrote a small storm. So if I had to do that over vacation, you know, maybe that's what will be my holiday spent some time with my husband, go for a walk, write 5,000 words and that'll be my Christmas. Why not? Why not? So things are still exciting on your end. I mean, you've moved and you're with boxes.

Autumn (5m 5s):
How is everything over there?

Jesper (5m 8s):
Yeah, still pretty chaotic to be honest. And it probably will be for a couple of weeks, but I'm going tomorrow to the house to hand over the keys to the new owners. So they are probably very excited about that. I think this past weekend we took a trip. I was about to say was, it's not that far, it's like 15 kilometers. Right? But we went back to the house this weekend from the apartment where we live in now with the kids, just to say goodbye to the house. And the, the oldest suddenly he went around saying goodbye to everything from toilets to cupboards to everything, got a goodbye.

Jesper (5m 48s):
And my wife, she did find it a bit sad. And my youngest, he was just like, he could kill us. He was just walking around. Like he didn't care. He's main concern was the garden where he was like, Oh, I played football here. This is where I learned my tricks and stuff like that. But that was pretty much his only concern. So yeah. So that's going to be the ending of that chapter tomorrow, officially, but otherwise I've just been putting furniture together and the kits were starting to look a bit better now, but the rest of the apartment is still a complete mess.

Jesper (6m 30s):
You know, put some holiday decorations on the boxes and stack them in tree shapes and just go with it. Yeah. Maybe I'll have to do that. We'll see.

Narrator (6m 40s):
A week on the Internet with the Am Writing Fantasy podcast.

Jesper (6m 48s):
I'm quite pleased with the reception of the wealth building course

Autumn (6m 51s):
I am too. This was, I mean, especially we're launching it in 2020, which we already know is the doomed here of the planet. I enjoy talking with our special guest. Who's the interview that when this is released, it'll have been the last episode with Brian Cohen. And when I was talking to him, he called it a generational year. It's like, this is the one we will talk about for our kids. You know, so many people will talk about this year for so long and I'm like, wow, that is so impactful. I hadn't thought of it that way. So yes, we released a course in 2020, and I'm thrilled with how many people are interested in picking it up at the VIP launch.

Autumn (7m 32s):
It's a good feeling.

Jesper (7m 35s):
Yeah, because essentially we only did a very limited launch meaning that we only announced it to the podcast listeners as well to our email list, but that was it. I'm pretty happy to see that there's been quite some interest in a lot of new students joining as well, which I think is very, very good because imagine having spent two years building this course, and then nobody was interested, that would be so horrible.

Autumn (7m 60s):
It would have been the capstone to 2020, but it didn't go that way. So I'm not complaining, especially since the week before we launched the course, I realized that now is the time if there ever was a time to rebuild the website and spending a week doing that right before we launched a course, not one course, but two courses, because we also launched the self publishing success free course at the same time. And yeah, that was a whole, it was also much work for you and I over two years planning this and doing the videos and then building it and then rebuilding the website all of a sudden. So thank you, everyone who picked it up and said that they were interested, or even if they said it was, they were interested in, it's not the right time.

Autumn (8m 43s):
Just feedback. Feedback is just what keeps us going. The bread crumbs that feed us when in the, in these years of trying time.

Jesper (8m 53s):
Yeah. It's very nice to get the occasional emails from people who, who find something we said or wrote or whatever really helped them. So that's wonderful. And we're also starting to see a few signups for, for that free course already. So I'm pleased about that. I can't, I can't remember if it was episode 102 or maybe it was 101, I don't know. You can go back and check that if you missed it. But we did explain in, in a quite recent episode what this recourse entails, but, but don't maybe just as a service, I'll add the link to the free course, once again, in the show notes to this episode. So if you missed it, you can, you can go and check it out.

Jesper (9m 33s):
But

Autumn (9m 34s):
Yeah, it is definitely, I guess the courses, it feels so good to be really close to completing. Like we did in our, a recent, in our 21st on the 21st the podcast we released and we looked at our goals for 2020 and how we did and what we're planning on doing in 2021. And it felt good to not only say we're really close to hitting all of our goals in 2020, but we actually did a couple of other things that we didn't need to dissipate at the time. So it might have been a trying and difficult year, but I think we're coming through it doing pretty good.

Jesper (10m 9s):
Yeah. I don't, I don't think it's too bad. I mean for, well, it depends on how you look at it, right? I mean, from, from the sort of world health perspective and stuff like that, it's a terrible year. But, but I think from the business side of, of what we're doing ourselves, I think it's, it has been pretty good in the sense that we've gotten a lot of that. Well, what you and I, in our internal meetings call the platform building. We've gotten a lot of that sort of this year. So hopefully heading into next year, we can focus on writing.

Autumn (10m 44s):
I'm so excited.

Jesper (10m 50s):
So I, I think first of all, as we get into this, we also have to be honest and say that there are no bad story ideas because is all about execution quite recent. I wrote an email to my, to the email list where I said that, imagine Frank Herbert, so the author of the classic doom. So, but imagine him explaining his story. So he would say something like my story takes place on an alien planet where there are these giant sand worms, and then I've included this awesome drug that allows you to see into the future. And then the hero will unlock genetic memories and acquire all the knowledge of his ancestors.

Jesper (11m 36s):
I mean, that sounds stupid, right?

Autumn (11m 37s):
It sounds like, well, are you marketing to cipher or a new age? Who are you trying to target with this one? So yeah, it it's, you have to have faith in your own story idea. And like in, as you're saying, there's no bad story ideas and there's also no really stealing story ideas. There's a couple here that I'm just, like I mentioned the top of the show, I'm kind of still fond of, but as we've discovered when you were, and I were debating what we were going to write and the series that we're going to be writing together this year is that one of the ideas I actually was using in another story idea and they've come out so different.

Autumn (12m 20s):
I don't think you would ever realize that they sprouted from the same. See they're completely different. So I'm not that worried about giving away these ideas and someone being like writing the exact story that was in my heart and soul, because you just can't do it one, I'm already a little screwed up, but you know how I look at it, the characters I create the world I create, it's going to change any of these stories into something else. So something here is spark something in you, right? Take it, run with it. It'll be that's what 2021 is all about, follow your dreams. We just put a whole heck of a year behind us. So start off with something you're passionate about. If this is what works for you.

Jesper (13m 3s):
Oh yeah. I agree. I mean, just think about Tolkien as well, right. My story is about this little creature called a Hobbit. It carries a ring that has the power to rule the world. That also sounds incredibly stupid. But at the end of the day, that was an Epic tale that came out of that. Right. So, and as you say, if I sit down and write that story based on that, and you do the same or somebody else, I mean, it's going to be different stories, all of them. So

Autumn (13m 26s):
Absolutely. Have I ever told you, speaking of the Hobbit, the, one of my favorite stories about that is I know FA I think a father who wrote, read the story to his kids and he always changed Bilbo to a woman, a female character, because he said it made more sense. She was after this rain, I just died laughing. So there you go. Even while you're reading a classic, I wonder if his, when his kids will realize Bilbo's not a girl, what's she called? Hey, you know, some names are genderless.

Jesper (14m 7s):
Okay. Fair enough. Yeah, no, no. I mean, it is all about execution. So I'm going to make fun of some ideas here in my life, but, but please don't take it as trying to offend anybody. If you have a similar story or, or what do I know or thought about it, then you can certainly execute all my stuff as well. In the, in the manner of that. It'll probably, well, not maybe all of them are that good, but in one way or another anyway, but I think we needed to get that out of the way first.

Autumn (14m 41s):
Yeah, exactly. We are not trying to offend anyone story ideas. We're trying to make you laugh. And that's what I was going to say. Maybe they'll do some ideas here will make you chuckle. Maybe they'll free up in your head and you'll be like, ah, you'll be more willing to experiment with your own ideas. Or maybe it'll be something that just resonates and was the missing piece to a story you want to write. So, you know, we're starting off a new year, let's have some fun and inspire each other and see where it goes.

Jesper (15m 8s):
Yeah. So do you want to start with your number five or one depending on which order we, I, it doesn't matter. Why not?

Autumn (15m 19s):
It's just, it's just ideas. So we'll flip a coin. Do you want me to start with one that's very well developed or one that's pretty much a loose cannon,

Jesper (15m 30s):
A loose cannon first.

Autumn (15m 31s):
All right. So I'm going to start at the back of my list. I'm gonna start at number five and go to number one, which is definitely the most developed. Okay. So here we go. So this is an idea that I really like, but this one I haven't developed much at all. So this is one where you have a hero in, who is ultimately supremely good, like holier than Holy good. And she is up against an evil. That is the ultimate evil. And no matter how much it's tried to end or kill this evil, it can't be until it's realized that the heroin's wonderful goodness is the perfect prison for the ultimate evil. So she becomes his living jail.

Autumn (16m 11s):
And so I like this topic. I mean, I'll have a world setting characters, but I like this one because it explores the idea of what if you are good, but you were suddenly harboring evil inside of you. I mean, how does that affect who you are, how you act, how your friends or your loved ones perceive you. And even more than that, what happens if the evil corrupts you? If you're no longer, perfectly good, can that great evil, you're the prison for escape, but if you've been tainted by evil, hasn't the evil also tainted by good. So not to mention, you've had this guy in your head for like, who knows, how long will you secretly be friends?

Autumn (16m 53s):
Will you maybe be more than the friends when it's another free entity again? So I just think there's so many cool questions with this one that I've played around with it in my head for ages, but it's not gotten any further than those are some really flood funding. Cool questions. Yeah.

Jesper (17m 10s):
Yeah. I was curious. So is that why you put it on the list of things you would not write because you can't figure out what to do with it or what, because at, at the bottom of it, it sounds like a pretty good idea, to be honest,

Autumn (17m 22s):
Hey, believe it or not, it's one I shared when we were debating what to write together, but I just, yeah. I don't know where to go with it. And so someone else will, maybe they'll go somewhere with it. Maybe, you know, if I live forever, I will get to it eventually. But I mean, I have probably four or five that, I mean, we have already together. I have a series I'm writing. I have a series I'm going to write after that. I might write more, write one more series in my elemental fantasy world. So I wouldn't get to this one for probably three or four years. Maybe by then I'll have figured it out. So I'm putting it out there. So if someone else's inspired, let me know. I think it's a fun idea. And I think there's a lot of people who struggle with that idea of, you know, feeling good, but having evil inside of you or vice versa.

Autumn (18m 10s):
And how does that change? Who you are if people knew the secrets you kept inside? I think it's a great story idea. And if someone wants to write it, this is a good setup to try. Yeah.

Jesper (18m 22s):
Yeah. I don't think it's that bad either.

Autumn (18m 25s):
Keep that in mind if something comes to my mind. Yeah.

Jesper (18m 30s):
Okay. Well, I can start my list out very simple before I start going crazy.

Autumn (18m 35s):
Okay. Yeah.

Jesper (18m 38s):
This one is just very simple and straightforward, I guess, but this is like the most cliche-filled story idea I could think of and this is why it's on the list of things I will not write. So this is the heir to a throne who discovers that he is the heir, but his evil uncle wants to prevent him from getting into power and therefore get rid of him. Alright, right. That's it very simple. I mean, this being an heir to a throne stuff, I freaking hate it.

Autumn (19m 13s):
It's just always there. And then I really don't. I don't want to do anything coming up. Yes. I was gonna say, I have two of those coming up. So it's kind of, yeah. It's, it's something that, yeah. Maybe I think if we wrote it together, we'd have to try to find some other aspect of it, but it's well, it's, it's there because it's something that is just, it's a trope that people understand instantly so wrong with it. I suppose you no.

Jesper (19m 43s):
And it might also be that it's just me who is allergic to it, but I don't know about it. I just feel like I've seen it too many times. That it's it's well, like we said before, it's a trope because people like it and that's why it's repeated. But I think this particular one, at least in my mind, and this is only my opinion, of course, but in my mind it is overused. That's why I don't want to do anything with heirs.

Autumn (20m 10s):
It's true though. I mean, I think it's one reason game of Thrones was kind of fun because there were errors, but often the errors didn't end up on the throne, actually, most of the management dead, but all the women ended up claiming Airship and saying, screw you all. This is where I deserve to sit. And so it was a lot more chaotic and fun. And you also could see that there would have been a lot more, a lot less fighting in the world. Maybe if it was more clear who got to be the next ruler and people stopped trying to kill them off. Yeah. But also gamified

Jesper (20m 42s):
Thrones is it's about the politics. It is not about the air realizing, Oh, I'm the air. And I mean, that's a very different story, right? So it's not that you can't have errors in my view. I mean, in game of Thrones, it did not annoy me because that was not what the story was about. It was about the factions fighting each other and stuff like that. It was a war story. Whereas if the story is centered around, Oh, I'm the air. And now I want to take my seat at the power and then somebody tries to stop me or whatever. I mean, I'm already falling asleep. So you better move on before I, before I,

Autumn (21m 21s):
Yeah. Fair enough. That'll be interesting to see what you think of the two that the air is pop-up in on my ideas. Right? All right. So you already from my number four. Okay. All right. So this is one that I actually might use if I continue writing in my world of sun dark, which is where my next series that I'll be writing black throne black blood is set. So this is one about a heroine. You'll notice I have a lot of heroines. I just write that kind of story. But from an earlier time in the world that this is set. So she gets on the wrong side of a more powerful demigod and is accused of betraying him. So her punishment, one of her punishments is to be sent through time to the far future, which lands her in a world where a lot has changed.

Autumn (22m 8s):
She is now the only demigod big from the Dawn time of her world. And all of her friends are now miss and magic is diluted. So she needs to adapt while missing all the things that she once had and feeling unjustly accused of something that she probably, I never figured that out. Didn't do. And she's still constrained by some of the other punishments, which one of them is that she could no longer give her name or access or home. So all of these things that were how she identified herself were stripped from her. So it was kind of goes into the question of how do you seek justice when the one who punished you is long gone, or how do you reclaim a part of who you are that's been taken from you by someone that you can't ask for it to be returned from?

Jesper (22m 58s):
Hmm.

Autumn (22m 60s):
Yeah. You'll see. I like these philosophical questions. I think there's somehow I like they're buried in the heart of your stories.

Jesper (23m 10s):
I liked the kind of stories that also makes you think a bit about something that, you know, it, it has some, something that assess other than just introduce somebody fighting somebody else and then who they want. Right. I mean, I like the, especially like the well in as you know, already, but I like endings where it's a bit gray area, you know, sort of like maybe the hero wins, but then again, there was some stuff that like, yeah, this is not so good. I like those kinds of endings where it's a bit like th it's depends on almost how you see it. Yes. I

Autumn (23m 46s):
Like those kinds of stories. Yes. I mean, I definitely tend to Nobel bright, but I also like those tweaks where it's not perfect. It's not what you expect. There's a little bit of bitterness with the good, because I hate to say it in life. I think if you didn't know a little bit of sadness, you would never appreciate the wonderful, this it's. You got to have a little, you got to have that balance to understand how, when things are good, that they're really good because, you know, you know, it's gotta be good at some point because of some reason. No, I agree. I think for,

Jesper (24m 19s):
In terms of story ideas that you would never ride, you need to up your game a bit here,

Autumn (24m 24s):
You're coming up with good ideas. That was not the point to me. I don't know if I'll ever get to this one because I like the idea, but again, you know, I can only write, so this one would be three, four, five years out there. So I don't mind sharing some good ones. Maybe I misunderstood the concept, but I opened up, like I said, I, I dove into my, my dusty file of topics that I've filed away. And I pulled out ones that I just don't know if I'll get to, but I don't mind sharing. Oh, that's fair. Okay. All right. I want to hear the fun one, right?

Jesper (24m 57s):
So we'd like to have nations at war in our stories, right?

Autumn (25m 1s):
Absolutely. Yeah. So how about this one? This is, this is so stupid. So a story about a war,

Jesper (25m 14s):
The perspective of a mule, which has to pull,

Autumn (25m 22s):
I can already feel the characterization that mule is going to kick people a lot, listen to angry mules thoughts would be a challenge. I, to be at least a good short story, but that'd be really fun. And it's a good idea to just, you know, write a story from a very uncommon perspective that you wouldn't expect. I think it's adorable. Maybe it could be a children's book actually. Yeah. I'm certainly not going to write it, but maybe that could work.

Autumn (26m 4s):
I think so. I think there would definitely be something in it that would be adorable. And you could easily have some kind of redemption for the mule at the end, if it was a children, not quite a sour puss or gets a happy ending on a nice field. So maybe

Jesper (26m 23s):
Does some grandiose deed that the, even the warhorses couldn't manage,

Autumn (26m 27s):
That would be, Ooh, I like that. It seems like it's already a good story idea. I'm not gonna write it. Can I can see it now. So yeah, definitely. If it wasn't pick this one up, you have to let us know in the comments. I want to go read it. It sounds so sweet.

Jesper (26m 50s):
All

Autumn (26m 50s):
Right. You ready for my number three? This is another big one. Okay. Yep. All right. So this one, this is one of my early attempts to write face stories. And I actually wrote a short story called ELLs wood, which is a, it's a free, short story that you can go check out on my website if you wanted to, but maybe it'll see some ideas for you. But I think there's definitely something more that can be developed out of this one. But I doubt I'll ever get back to this one because bits might be pulled into the current story, the face stories I'm writing now in the tainted phase, but it's, I'm done with this one. So this one's free. Go for it. This is about a young girl whose grandmother discovers the garden around her cottage in Maine is actually a Haven for Pixies and fairies.

Autumn (27m 37s):
And the stream on the property actually marks a boundary between our world and the Fe. And that's all well and good until her granddaughter discovers this as well and meets the son of the fake queen. So, you know, afraid that her granddaughter will be stolen away to the world of the Fe. She manages to win a bargain from the queen that her son will never appear to her granddaughter as a young man, as long as she lives. So these two are still, they still managed to be best of friends because he takes the form of a run. And you know how fake promises go, especially considering yours, aren't really that long. So when she inherits the property, Def go have fun with that.

Autumn (28m 20s):
The son of the fake queen and the granddaughter of this old lady who has been secretly harboring ferries in her yard and, and you know,

Jesper (28m 31s):
Well, this is, I don't know why, but my mind always took turns to the dark side. But as soon as you said, as long as he's alive, then my, Oh, okay. Then I started thinking about, okay, well, how can we kill her?

Autumn (28m 46s):
So would it be a little cruel? And I never said if she was light or dark face, so this could totally go the evil step, either evil fade queen, but see, it's already inspired you. I feel very satisfied for SPE sending that one off into the world. I actually, I didn't expect that. I didn't expect to get expired. These kinds of things, but it's a 72 or three times now, already,

Jesper (29m 13s):
So. Okay. That's good. Good, good. Okay. Do you want another number three?

Autumn (29m 18s):
Yes. Let's go for yours.

Jesper (29m 21s):
Probably goes a bit crazy.

Autumn (29m 23s):
I can't wait so more off the rails.

Jesper (29m 28s):
So this is a story about an insane hypnotist. Okay. So stay with me. So this hypnotist is hell bent on mentally crushing the girl. He loves not quite sure why. And then somewhere in here in this story, there was a gigantic kite that is raised to rip the land of an unnatural infestation of birds. How does that sound

Autumn (29m 53s):
Hypnotist? A kite, maybe. I sounds very interesting. This sounds like an improv comedy skit, which Brian Cohen and I got into talking about improv a little bit. So this is definitely something that someone would throw up to you when you're doing improv and you would have to come up with something in five minutes. So I think there's possibilities here. Yeah. Do you know what? I actually have a secret? Oh, really? What,

Jesper (30m 23s):
Because this was a bit of a trick. It is actually a real story.

Autumn (30m 26s):
You're kidding.

Jesper (30m 28s):
No, I'm not. It is. And it's written by the author who more or less created the vampire genre. So maybe, you know, who?

Autumn (30m 37s):
Bram Stoker?

Jesper (30m 39s):
Yes. It is. Isn't that insane? The story is called the Lair of the White Worm and that it is about an incident hypnotist and there is like a gigantic Cate to rip the land of birds. Infestation could sound completely crazy.

Autumn (30m 58s):
Well, that's a good point. I have to go look this up when we're done now. And I, I had a little mouse tell him, tell me I might be getting a Kindle for the holidays for you all. So I will have to go see if I can find it and put it on my possibly future Kindle, even though I'm getting take going. No, no, you're not. That's what I said.

Jesper (31m 18s):
Yeah. I think it needs to go in there with very, very low expectations because this is what always just, it has been slaughtered than it is on list of the worst stories ever and stuff like that. So I think it's very bad.

Autumn (31m 30s):
Oh my goodness. Well, that makes me, you know, if I feel good, if someone like from stroke, Stoker can write a flops,

Jesper (31m 42s):
It should give the rest of us a bit of well hope. Right. Even if we might as well done. Well, the best of them can do that as well. So that's good.

Autumn (31m 56s):
Definitely. All right. So yes, I was, I think we all need to leak, loosen up occasionally, even if it's flash fiction, right. Something totally out there, because it makes you feel, remember writing can be fun and giggly and it doesn't always have to make logical sense. So it doesn't have to be very long go, right. The Jabber walkie, which is one of my favorite poems, by the way. So I used to actually have like half of it memorized. So go write, go write your own version of the Jabber walkie and, and just have fun with the boards for a little while. All right. So we're moving into my, definitely this is one that I actually plotted out kind of love story, but this is one that we mentioned the air.

Autumn (32m 42s):
So this is what you'll have to see how you feel about this one. We ready. So there's a more of a traditional medieval fantasy tale. That's almost our Thorin. And like I said, I picked away and there's actually two short stories. I've written called a bargains price and all his lantern light that are again on my website for free, if you would like to get inspired, feel free. But in this one, a noble has risen up and claimed the thrown away from the legitimate Royal family. The youngest child though, was allowed to live and grow as long as he swore fealty to the new King, which, you know, added legitimacy to his claim of his new throne. But the story really begins when the young Prince and his lover, who is his best friend and another noble household son, they begin to plot it to reclaim the throne that has been stolen.

Autumn (33m 33s):
And so there's, I've got a lots of notes in this one from the noble sons, orchestrated death, where the Prince actually stabs him to make it look real. And this frees the noble from watchful eyes so that he can go and learn to forge a King maker sword to give the Prince. And of course all the problems of loving another man while being the heir to the throne. And you're expected to become the King and marry a woman and produce heirs. So, you know, there's a little bit of a love entanglement that I thought it would be kind of a fresh take on the story. And I love the idea of sort of the Excalibur with the kingmaker store's sword. So it's kind of that kind of story.

Jesper (34m 13s):
Hm. You know what? That could work

Autumn (34m 15s):
Good. Like I said, I was intrigued enough that I wrote two short stories on it, but I haven't gone any further. I just, it didn't have enough magic. I think for me, maybe someone else can take it and add more magic, but I like the characters and that's what kept drawing me back to it. As I kind of really loves the main character is in the, I really actually liked the noble son. And he was really kind of pissed at his lover, the friends for step point so hard. I had that whole, I could hear them having the argument later, once he healed, which took several months, by the way. Right?

Jesper (34m 52s):
Yeah. No, no, no. I can see that. That's not too bad.

Autumn (34m 57s):
You forgive that it's an heir story. Thank you.

Jesper (35m 0s):
Yeah. Maybe we tweak it a bit, but otherwise yeah.

Autumn (35m 5s):
Fair enough. So what's your crazy one before, so I'm not, you know,

Jesper (35m 12s):
In which resources are very scarce, so people will naturally want to protect what they have. Right. Right. So far so good. That's that's sounds pretty normal up until this point. Then I think people are getting got docs to help them. Well, God, however, they probably go overboard in training the docs so that they become very vicious attack docs, all of them. So now you have a city

Autumn (35m 40s):
It's basically dangerous to go outside

Jesper (35m 41s):
Because there's just vicious stocks everywhere. I don't know

Autumn (35m 46s):
If there's really enough meat on that bone to very funny metaphor. I don't know if there's enough to go anywhere with that, to be honest. But I think I could definitely go somewhere. I mean, dog stories, I'd like to dog stories, there was a very good futuristic. One where dogs were intelligent enough that they were nannies, but they were like, you know, they were looking for rights of basically us citizens because they were, their intelligence had been upped that much. So I think there's always room for the people who like me love dogs as you might've heard him bark. And I touched him, sorry.

Autumn (36m 26s):
While we were podcasting. And some of my dogs had a bark at me. He was so indignant that I touched to the Royal hiked that, yeah, this could be a kick-ass world too. It really lives that. What if I tell you that

Jesper (36m 47s):
I was on board panda.com earlier today? I don't know why, but I was on there earlier today. And that was where I got this from.

Autumn (36m 55s):
Oh, this idea from, because it is actively sought. So that in Fort

Jesper (37m 1s):
Thomas, Kentucky is a state

Autumn (37m 2s):
Law that States, the following

Jesper (37m 5s):
Socks are prohibited from chasing people or other animals.

Autumn (37m 11s):
That's most of work. I just don't get it until you get the dog a ticket. If it chases somebody, how are you supposed to

Jesper (37m 20s):
I'll make sure that the dogs are chasing another animal. Don't

Autumn (37m 24s):
It's not just, I don't think I could understand that one. Well, yeah, that would to say my I've got a little small little thing and he used, still goes after squirrels. Like there's no tomorrow. So good luck training a dog, not to chase anything. I mean,

Jesper (37m 41s):
The article on bored Panda, that com is five years old. So I don't know if it's still the law there, but if we have any listeners from Kentucky, can you please let us know one why in the world was this law put in place in the first place?

Autumn (37m 58s):
I don't understand. I not having a dog speak. Cause that's about the only way to keep on that. Yeah. Oh goodness. I can't. Okay. All right. You ready for my final one? All right. So this one I like, but it's more of a space opera, which so even though I really liked the story and the character is I, if I wanted to write a space opera, this is not a Shaundra that I'm quite ready to branch into and I'd have to read a whole bunch of books. And I don't know if I'm going to take the time. I like fantasy space operas. I taught to find a way of putting in galactic dragons or something to make it worth it.

Autumn (38m 42s):
So this was my second air one. And you'll have to see what you think of this one, because it's one where I like to turn the tables on what is the common trope? So the heir of the galactic empire is a young woman, but her father would rather see her younger brother on the throne, but he can just name his son without breaking the hundreds of years of traditions. So officially, no air has been declared, even though it's assumed it will be his a daughter. So this of course leads to a lot of political maneuverings, as well as hurt family feelings, just what you want when you're the galactic empire. So until the daughter and presumed air says to hell with it and leave, she sneaks off, goes to a tiny far-flung world where she's just not known and they don't really care who the empire emperor is at all.

Autumn (39m 33s):
And of course, low, she discovers life without a family name is not as easy as she expected, but she earns a place eventually through probably an entire trilogy and skills and even manages to fall in love, of course, but even that idol can only last so long before the problems of an empire come calling. So this one, I do have, again, a short story written called the lost heir on my website, but I just, I did, I loved Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman did write a whole series. That was a galactic space opera. And it really, I loved it. It was one of my favorite stories for a very long time. And I think that's where the heart of this one comes from is like, I want to do that too, but space opera, star ships and worlds.

Autumn (40m 21s):
I don't know.

Jesper (40m 26s):
Mm yeah. The jury is still out.

Autumn (40m 32s):
I understand. But at least the one world where it's set was going to be more traditional fantasy medieval. And I still, I look at the overall story going. I wonder if I can just get rid of the whole space ship thing, so we'll have to see, and my pop-up someday, but it's so back-burnered, I'd rather write number five first and I'll even have characters or a world for that one.

Jesper (40m 54s):
No. Okay. Yeah. I see. Okay. I have a number five for years.

Autumn (40m 59s):
Will I want to hear this one? This will be fun.

Jesper (41m 2s):
Yeah. I might have been running out of steam here to watch the end. So I went to a plot generator dot Octa, UK, and came up with the most terrible story idea. So I thought I put that one. Yeah.

Autumn (41m 15s):
Excellent. I can't wait to hear it. So yeah,

Jesper (41m 19s):
Just generates a random plot. And this is what it says. So when a plumber from Madrid decides to start eating people, not everybody is supportive. I don't understand that part either. Then it goes on to say wherever his fortunes improve, when he's golf caddy opens the zoo the plumber remembers that he actually killed his golf caddy 10 years previously.

Autumn (41m 56s):
Yeah. Well one thank you for telling me there's plotgenerator.org, which I did not know. And now whenever I am bored is going to totally be there at website. I go and hang out with, but like, it makes no sense at all. Okay. Well, I mean, I guess put it into a fence,

Jesper (42m 16s):
You know, you can get rid of Madrid and then put some fantasy city in there and you can do some other things with the, maybe he's not golfing, he's doing something else, but it's like, first of all, why is people would they consider supporting somebody, eating people? I don't understand. And why is it that he's fortunate to prove because his golf caddy opens the zoo what has that to do?

Autumn (42m 42s):
Well, my mind went through well, he's, he's opening. Yeah. I don't DB. It's another way of eating people know, that's the only reason he'd be happy, easier access to dinner. Tiger. Maybe that's pretty bad. Right.

Jesper (43m 12s):
I also came across a post on Reddit where it was a thread about really bad story ideas. So I was just looking through to see what there was there. And somebody posted something that I read about bad story ideas, where I was like, I'm... I would actually like to read this. I don't think it's a bad idea, but if it was a book about middle earth from perspective, I think that would be cool.

Autumn (43m 42s):
I think it would be really cool too. It's it's the unwritten viewpoint of the entire series. I think that'd be fantastic. Yeah.

Jesper (43m 50s):
I don't know why that was on a list of bad ideas. Sounds cool to me.

Autumn (43m 56s):
I don't know. Maybe assume since it hadn't been written, it was a bad idea. Maybe he wanted someone to tell him that. No, it's actually a good idea because that would be kind of cool.

Jesper (44m 5s):
Yeah. I also find too really weird book titles.

Autumn (44m 9s):
Oh, we want to hear those. Definitely.

Jesper (44m 13s):
So the first one is, "do it yourself coffins!. Why you would do that, but that just really laugh so bad.

Autumn (44m 30s):
Another one. I also don't understand this one is knitting with dog hair. I just asked you, why would you do that?

Jesper (44m 39s):
I have actually seen a dog hair blanket, but I kind of agree. I was not tempted to wrap myself in it. It was one of those little arts craft things where at a, at a main festival that I was like, Oh, that's I hope did you just, you know, sit there and you have a dog that sheds a lot, and this is what your solution, I don't know. But you can't know that. I mean, some of this just made me laugh. So I, like I said, I think we all need to remember that writing. We take it serious. We, it doesn't have to be, we should remember that there are fun things.

Autumn (45m 18s):
You can go and have some fun stories and write to write a fun 500 word story and just be goofy and loose with it. Like I said, right? The Jabber walkie, which is all just nonsensical fun words to say, and clickety clack claws, and go ahead and do all those things that they tell you not to do with like a little ration. And it's not, it's fun. Go sing song with your five-year-old niece and remember languages. Just, you know, it's not all about being serious all the time. No, no, indeed. I mean, the main thing to take away from all of this is really that story ideas. They might sound dumb, but if we do our job as authors, really, really well, we can transform what sounds stupid into something magical, something that will sweep the reader off their feet and carry them into another realm.

Jesper (46m 12s):
So I think that's where we need to keep in mind. And that's really the takeaway from all of this. So I hope we at least let people laugh a bit. At least that was the intention and also inspired a few ideas as well. I don't know. That'd be great. Let us, so next Monday, we are going to share an alternative way to engage with your email list. One that autumn came up with. So see you there.

Narrator (46m 46s):
If you like, what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to support the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn and Jesper on patreon.com/amwritingfantasy for as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcasts going. Stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 105 – The Worst Advertising Mistake Authors Make - with Bryan Cohen

Join Autumn and special guest Bryan Cohen to discuss AMS ads, book blurbs, and, oh yeah, the worst advertising mistake authors can make.

Bryan is an expert on book blurbs and his free AMS ad challenges have helped thousands of authors learn the ropes of using Amazon ads. Does that mean AMS ads are hitting saturation? What might be the next big move for self-published authors to connect with readers? We discuss that and more!

Check out Bryan's podcast the Sell More Books Show at https://sellmorebooksshow.com/. And learn more about Bryan on his website: http://bryancohen.com/.

Join Bryan's January 2021 AMS challenge at https://bryancohen.lpages.co/january-amazon-ad-challenge-2021-ov4/

Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday.  

SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST!

Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review.  

Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy.

For as little as a dollar a month, you’ll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going.

Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Narrator (1s):
You're listening to the am writing fantasy podcast in today's publishing landscape. You can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now onto the show with your hosts, Autumn Birt, and Jesper Schmidt.

Autumn (30s):
Welcome to the am. Writing Tennessee podcast. This is episode one Oh five I'm autumn. And today Yesper has the recording session off and I have with the very special guest instead author and entrepreneurial Brian Cohen. Whoa. Welcome to the writing fantasy podcast. Brian,

Bryan (50s):
Thank you, autumn. I appreciate you having me. We had some nice technical difficulties figuring this out, but I'm so glad we were able to make it work

Autumn (1m 0s):
Well. It's always nice working with someone who is probably, I mean, you do live webinars and all these other things. So I have a feeling you can roll with the technical difficulties very well. I wasn't worried. Hey, that's the nice thing is, is with modern technology. There's always a workaround. There's at least like three or four, so we figured it out and you're here and I'm so excited for you to join us today. So I know you through these amazing AFS ad challenges you run, but I had of course heard of your name way before the AMS ad challenges, because you were known as like a guru of book blurbs, but I know that's not even close to everything you've done.

Autumn (1m 43s):
So if you could introduce yourself, that would be fantastic.

Bryan (1m 48s):
Sure. Of course. Well, of late, the big thing that I I've been doing is I run these free courses that we, we talk about them as challenges, these free challenges about Amazon advertising. One of the, the, the strangest weirdest little advertising platform is Kindle author them. And it's our goal to try to just make it simpler, but it also try to make them not spend all of your money. And those are the five day Amazon ad profit challenges and, and I've been running them and I have a really good team behind them and it's a lot of fun, but originally I would say some people might know me from my podcast, the some more books show, some people might know me from the author copywriting agency.

Bryan (2m 47s):
I run best page forward. We write book descriptions and ad copy, and I'm an author myself having written multiple young adult scifi fantasy. Depends on it. Depends on where you're placing superheroes. Amazon has a category on both sides.

Autumn (3m 6s):
Oh, that's so is it like more techie? So it ends up in this Saifai side or if it's more magic it's on the fantasy side or is that, Oh, Hey, that's excellent.

Bryan (3m 20s):
But yeah, so I am not currently writing fantasy, but I have been in the state of M writing fantasy in, in the past. So hopefully I still qualify.

Autumn (3m 32s):
Oh, absolutely. And I mean, just for your expertise alone, I think it's fantastic. I, I said, I've done at least two or three of your AMS ad challenges and I learn something new every single time. They amazing. And so it's great to have you on here, but yeah, you, you get some of the fantasy mindset and the world-building and the powers and making rules so that people, you know, aren't going crazy and can do anything in their God. And that just makes it so less tense and fun. Yes, this is true. Well, I mean, there's so many things we could talk about. It was hard to choose even a focus other than I know, you know, I know you threw AMS at challenges, but you help authors so much with the marketing.

Autumn (4m 19s):
And I mean, market from the book, blurbs to the AMS ads, are you aware when authors market books with all your experience and all the people you've helped, what do you think is the number one thing authors do wrong when they're trying to get their book out there in the world?

Bryan (4m 37s):
Well, I think it has to start with, with the foundation of the book. The, I don't know who invented it, but I'll, I'll borrow it and not take credit for it. But writing the book with the marketing in mind is so key. When I, the first, I think I remember it being like conceptualized for me when a few years ago, when Adam Croft a very successful mystery and thriller author, he talks started talking about writing the hook, the, the, the first line of the book description, the thing that could be used on ads, the copy, as some people call it to write that before the book.

Bryan (5m 28s):
And I just thought, well, how smart is that? If you don't even have a good hook, if you don't even have something that would get people excited about it, chances are you're going to have a hard time getting people excited about your book. So I loved the idea of writing that, that big one-liner, even before the book. And I've heard of some people writing the book description for a book before they write the book. And I think that that is a thing that a lot of people get wrong is they write the book and then they do all the marketing stuff after.

Bryan (6m 14s):
But really you might want to start by doing some of the marketing work first to make sure you're writing a book that you're going to put so much effort into that, that there will actually be people who are interested in,

Autumn (6m 30s):
Right. Oh, I should say whew. Cause I, I definitely one of those people who I do write little descriptions before I start writing, and then I refer back to it. Cause that's, it's one thing to come up with an idea and develop it with a description or a hook, but then you have to make sure you actually pay attention to it. Not you're like halfway through the novel and go, Oh, that's not even close to what I'm doing. It kind of it's, it should guide you not be this exercise that you put aside and don't even think about until you're done. And then you realize you're completely off the rails.

Bryan (7m 1s):
Oh yeah, no, absolutely. I was working with a friend of mine who was trying to write the market and trend. It was a paranormal cozy mystery and she sent over the book description and I read it and I thought, you know, I don't think this is paranormal cozy. At least not the way the book descriptions written. And I check in with her, you definitely want to write in this genre. Right? She says, yes. And I said, all right, well, let me connect you with someone who writes a lot of paranormal cozy and she can give you opinions on what would need to change.

Bryan (7m 43s):
And certain like setting pieces and character motivations and tropes as they are often referred to changing those in that early stage of the game has now made her a huge, like on the edge of five figure author per month access. And it start. And obviously I'm not taking credit for that. She, she has written out 13 books in that series, but when you take a minute, take a breath, share it with some experts, share it with some people in that early, early stage, it could be worth a lot of money, but it could also just be worth like helping you to write the book you were meant to write.

Bryan (8m 39s):
Anyway,

Autumn (8m 40s):
That's true. Or even just drawing out some of the, the tidbits. I like the tropes, like you mentioned, like, well, did you consider this? This is popular right now, or that's been overdone. So stay away from it. It could save you months of writing to write something. You could've gone a different way. And it might've been a little bit better. I have to been I've recently did read Chris Fox's book right to market. And we had him on the podcast, but of course we didn't. We talked about Kickstarter and not his right to market books, but it's wonderful. Pretty cool. But I do really appreciate the idea. I think a lot of authors, you know, they hear that right to market and they think, Oh, you know, you're, you're taking away the, the, the fun of it, the innovation of it.

Autumn (9m 27s):
But it's not really that it's sort of looking at it from a business perspective, saying I'm going to spend this many months of my life and probably give up some things like family time. So I can do this. And I want to invest that wisely with something that I really would like to do well, at least as well as the best chance it has.

Bryan (9m 46s):
Yeah. I have an analogy that might help those. So I used to do improv comedy. Anyone who's ever been to an improv comedy show, you know, that they often take suggestions from the audience and like a word or I've, I've been to a show where they use a title of a musical, or they use a news story that they have to read out loud and then they, they will take that inspiration and they will use that to inspire them for a scene. You might think you get some weird suggestion. Of course, people are always trying to use potty words, whatever, but at least drinking on a Friday, Saturday night.

Autumn (10m 33s):
So just setting the idea there. Yeah,

Bryan (10m 36s):
Exactly. But you've got this word that you think, Oh, this might constrain me, but I have seen words and concepts and titles and news stories inspire incredible things. Even though you might think that word or that concept would constrain you, it it's really what you do with it. What you do within that framework. That is where the creative process happens. I mean, Shakespeare's plays are nearly all adaptations and they have stood the test of time, even though they weren't his original idea.

Bryan (11m 21s):
He took these concepts, these other plays, these stories, these pieces of history. And within that framework created something we're still talking about 400 plus years later.

Autumn (11m 37s):
That's a great analogy. And it really does bring it home. I agree with you. I had never considered it in terms of Shakespeare. And I only have this complete work sitting on my bookshelf and I've read most of them. So that's Oh yes, I, yeah. That's a whole different conversation, but that is fantastic.

Bryan (11m 58s):
That and the Shakespeare podcast.

Autumn (12m 0s):
Oh, excellent. I will see you there. As soon as we find it.

Bryan (12m 5s):
Great.

Autumn (12m 6s):
Send me the link. So that's wonderful. And that kind of develops too. So obviously, I mean, I already know you, you like to, you're so good at writing blurbs. You even teach in the AMS ads, challenges, you teach a little bit of blurb writing and how to hone them and refine them. And I have to admit, so it's a nice to hear that you, you, you think that they should be part of like the original story development, it leads so much into your marketing and that's where you grow it. And you've seen probably thousands of blurbs. I mean, what do you think authors get wrong the most when they're developing it? Because I love you have a very solid strategy of saying, you know, sentence one, sentence two. I have it like copy and pasted in my Scrivener file when I'm developing my blurb.

Autumn (12m 50s):
I just already have it copied there so I can look at it and develop mine. Yeah. I really am thrilled to have you here today.

Bryan (12m 58s):
Oh well, I'm, I am honored, but I think the thing people th that they struggle with is, is I think partly it's not getting themselves in the right mindset in the right framework. And you might hear some buzzing. I, I am in a hotel rooms, a fear just came on, but it is what it is when you are trying to fit in a blurb in the 30 or so minutes that you've allocated for yourself and not realizing that this is a piece of marketing.

Bryan (13m 42s):
This is a piece of poetry's someone whoever created, just do it. The slogan for Nike probably hammered on it for eight hours. I mean, you aren't necessarily going to be able to complete something that is going to make every reader who stumbles upon it excited unless you give it the time that is needed and the space and for it to be your creative time, not your well, I do my writing in the morning and I do my marketing after three o'clock when I'm half falling asleep, you need your creative time to work on this piece of the marketing, because that piece of the marketing is something that requires creativity.

Autumn (14m 35s):
Yes. So you'd definitely recommend probably coming back a couple of times, not, you know, you're 30 minutes and you're done and never look at it again.

Bryan (14m 45s):
Yes, definitely. Don't do that. You don't know if you have any typos, you should check. Oh. And share your blurb with your editor when you are writing the book, because then they will catch the mistakes that you don't catch yourself.

Autumn (15m 4s):
Yes. That's a very good point. And I definitely have seen some what looked like very well sounding blurbs online, but then yeah, you read them and you notice, you know, sometimes it's little things come as a periods, but sometimes it is a word wrong. You're like, Oh, I can always, always do a good deed and let your author know so that they can figure it out. Yeah.

Bryan (15m 25s):
You see something about a blurb, say something about a blurb.

Autumn (15m 28s):
Yes. That's a very good idea. Well, I mean, we've mentioned the AMS challenges you've run. So just, just in case there's an author out there who is not aware of AMS ads and what they are. Could you give a quick description of what they are and how did you come up with doing these challenges?

Bryan (15m 49s):
Oh, that's a great question. So Amazon ads, AMS ads, whatever you want to call them. These are the ads that you see on Amazon. When you're searching for a book, when you type something into the search bar, you'll often notice there's some ads at the top. There's some ads kind of interspersed in the search results. And then there's also some ads that show up on every page, every book page, there's a carousel. You'll see a little sponsored icon when you know the hat. Those are, those are the ads. And those ads are placed by publishers or other authors who are run through the Amazon advertising platform.

Bryan (16m 36s):
And they will bid what they want to spend per click. They say, I want to bid 40 cents per click. And then someone, if, if a reader clicks on the ad and then goes to check out your book page, you get charged for that click. So you would get charged 40 cents or a little bit less for someone to click onto that ad. And the goal of course is to bid low enough so that you're not paying so much per click because you could bid $5 per cent. I know people who've accidentally bid $5 and get $5 clicks.

Bryan (17m 20s):
Chances are, if your book is selling for $2 and 99 cents, that is not going to be a effective use of your money. No. Yeah. And so if that's part of the game is bidding low enough. The other part of the game is, and it goes back to the blurb. It goes to the cover. It goes to how well something has been written to market. You want to get a sale for as few number of clicks as possible. Because even if you're, if you're getting clicks for 10 cents, if it takes 40 clicks for someone to buy your book, well, then you're going to be paying $4 every time you sell a book.

Bryan (18m 5s):
And if your book's two 99, and then you're, you're not going to be making that money. So you play the game of getting as low as you can and still getting traction and making sure that your book converts with as few clicks as possible. I like to say about six to eight clicks. I used to say 10, but now I say six to eight clicks because some books are shorter. Some books are standalones and, and ten one sale for every 10 clicks. Sometimes isn't profitable. So about six to eight, especially if the books in Kindle unlimited six to eight clicks per sale is a good ratio for profitability and then trying to keep that bid low.

Bryan (18m 59s):
So that was the, just the answer to the first question, answer to the second question is I I've, I've been pretty fortunate to connect with a few people who have really had success running challenges. One of the first challenges I ever joined as a participant was a challenge called the simple green smoothies. Oh, I know. And I was very fortunate to be in a mastermind group, which is a group of entrepreneurs or group of people trying to use their smarts together.

Bryan (19m 45s):
So it's the master mind. And this, this group had one of the co-founders of the simple green smoothie challenge in it. And one of the things that her name is Jada Sellner. And one of the things I learned from her was that challenge for spending $0 on marketing brought in over a million people. Wow. Oh, that's amazing. Or challenges. Sound cool. Yeah. So seeing that challenge and seeing other challenges, I knew I really wanted to do one and it was just a matter of trying to figure out, well, what about Amazon ads?

Bryan (20m 32s):
Could we do a challenge about, and really, I think that the thing a lot of people struggle with is the creation of these ads. And so if we could provide as much support as possible, the right documentation, the right to help people get over every technical hurdle, mental hurdle, just like a glitch hurdle,

Autumn (20m 60s):
Time hurdle, just making the time for it. Yes.

Bryan (21m 4s):
And getting over all of those in a short period of time. I think that I thought that people would, would really take to it. And we've been very fortunate that word of mouth is good. We, we do spend a lot of money on marketing, our own thing. And, and now we're on our sixth one and it's been over 20,000 people have taken the challenges.

Autumn (21m 30s):
That's fantastic. And they are, they're a great motivational. I mean, if you, if you're tempted to do AMS ads and you just don't know where to start, or you're just, you know, you can go find all this research in different places and just not take the time to synthesize it. And you just put it in front of you and you give a deadline and you have people supporting you and commenting on your stuff and, you know, helping you out. It's like, it's a whirlwind, but you get through it. And you do finally, if it's, if there's some hurdle for you to start, you kind of get beyond it. The next thing you know, you're doing AMS ads and it's amazing and it's been a month. And then the, you know, the next challenge comes up and you have to join that one too, because you always have something new to learn. And it's like nano Ramo.

Autumn (22m 10s):
You know, you're, you're joining with a bunch of authors. And I see a lot of faces that I I've known. You know, I've been an author since 2012. So there's a lot of other writers I know, and you connect and you lose touch over time and then you reconnect and I've seen them in the challenge. So it's also been a great, like, Hey, how have you been doing, I haven't seen you for two years. So that's very, it's fun. It's a fun group that you do run and they're informative and helpful.

Bryan (22m 37s):
We, we really enjoy it. And, and I love fostering those connections. We need community more than ever right now. And so if I can play and my company and the people I work with can play a small role in providing some of that community. We are absolutely all for it.

Autumn (22m 57s):
No, I definitely think you do. And yes, 2020, especially we need our community a little bit more sympathetic and a few more extra arms to support us all this year. So with the AMS ads, do you think, I mean, you've noticed that, you know, your, your, the number of clicks, you've dropped it from 10 to six to eight. So do you think as well that there any keywords or genres that AMS ads might be getting saturated in? Is this something you're concerned about in the future? That, cause I noticed like Facebook ads, I had a golden age and now they're a lot harder to get traction on. Do you think the same thing will happen with the AMS ads?

Bryan (23m 39s):
I think it's very possible. I was at the 20, 1920 to 50 K conference and I was talking about ads and I mentioned that Amazon ads are under priced right now because a lot of people can and do make profit off it. And I didn't realize at first I was hearing a noise from the crowd and they were sh people were shushing me. They were like, there's Amazon ad reps in the, in the room. And I'm like, Oh, okay, sorry. Don't raise our prices. Come on to this point, they are still under priced and people can still make money off of them.

Bryan (24m 20s):
I think the very, very popular genres, your, your paranormal, your contemporary romance, those are going to be more saturated. There's no question. But one of the things that currently is true here in December, 2020, because things are always changing. But currently right now, because Amazon doesn't just focus on the price of your bid, but also on how relevant your book is, how similar your book is to the things you're targeting.

Bryan (25m 4s):
It's not just a care. I used to think that it was a ranking system and it was the first place as a $2 bid and second place as a dollar 80 in third place has a dollar 60. I used to think that I think it was Janet Margo, who can, who, who had worked with Amazon advertising and developing the platform. She was the one who I think was the first to inform me that actually you could have a 40 cent bid, 30 cent bid and be the first in the carousel. Oh, I didn't realize this. How is this possible? And it's because relevancy is such a huge factor.

Bryan (25m 46s):
If your book is so perfectly a coming of age fantasy, it's got the right cover. It's got the right title. People are clicking on it. People are buying it. The conversion rate is very good. And at the conversion rate, particularly from the ads is good. It's going to be higher up in the rankings than a book that isn't as well marketed.

Autumn (26m 13s):
It has a higher bid price. So that's interesting.

Bryan (26m 17s):
Right? So that's why you always want to target books that are very close to your own and you don't want to try more is not necessarily going to be better unless you can come up with more and more, very perfect targets.

Autumn (26m 35s):
Okay. Well, that's, that explains a lot of the strategies. Even you teach a refining the key words and finding the right books to target, because that's really the key to not spending a ton of money, but also getting your books seen.

Bryan (26m 51s):
Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Autumn (26m 54s):
Like I said, every time I talk to you, I learned more. So this is really, that's a good tip. Now I'm 30 thinking. Well, you do definitely. Oh, that's interesting. So you think, so, that's good to know that, you know, AMS has, are not saturated because they are working now and it's always important to find a way we've gone past the, you don't need to market. If you want your book seen, you basically need to market in some way, these years, 20, 20, 20, 21. It's, that's just the reality we're in we're now, you know, the book, big book publishers are, they're still out there, but there's enough indie authors that we're running this as a business that we've got to consider advertising anymore.

Bryan (27m 36s):
Yeah. It, it, I, I, you are an author since 2012. I started in 2010 and it used to be easier.

Autumn (27m 44s):
Yes. Oh my goodness. Yes. I refer to those early years as the wild West where, I mean, you could just dash up a book dash up a cover dash up, you know, something you wrote as a blurb and people would find it and buy it. And even if you did a five K Kendall, K you unlimited countdown, I mean, people would download it by the thousands because there was less than a million books, but it's a little

Bryan (28m 12s):
And thought that those books were paid. So your sales rank would be like, number one, afterwards, those, those were interesting times for funny glitches to be discovered that made some people very well.

Autumn (28m 25s):
Yes, it was good for them. I did not get on one of those glitches, but that's okay. I'm still doing it. I still love it. And I love helping other authors as well. I mean, it's just, it's half the community. I think this is one of the nicest communities you can find online or other authors. So it's just a really wonderful place to be. I agree. I agree so well, do you think though Amazon is always going to be the King either for finding books or the ads? I mean, do you think there's going to be eventually, maybe down the road another way for readers to discover authors? I know a lot of, as Amazon grows and they don't even give away how many books they now host on their platform and on their servers, it's, you know, people are saying eight and 9 million books easily.

Autumn (29m 15s):
What's going on. Do you think it's going to get too crowded? Is, is there going to be something else other than Amazon that readers will be able to find other authors or is it just going to be, you know, like really crowded beach we're in doing Scott, they're a little square and that's about it.

Bryan (29m 31s):
We've been, we've been waiting and hoping for someone to just come out of the gate and be the next Amazon. And there's definitely lots of smaller pockets of, of some people who are having some success on Kobo or Apple or Barnes and noble, but I'm most intrigued by people selling direct and what, I've, what I, I, I remember Michael Scott aro, who was, I believe his books were taken down from Amazon.

Bryan (30m 20s):
Amazon had said that there were some rules violated. I have no idea everything I consider allegedly until I see see some documentation on it, but from what I hear, and he was doing very, very well, top hundred, one of the top hundred authors on Amazon at the time and making a lot of money. A lot of it was from Kindle unlimited. A lot of it was from, from Amazon type sources of income. But from what I hear, he has used more of the crowdfunding and direct sales models based on a very, very large email list to just say, well, if Amazon won't have me, then I'm going to do it myself and Chris on your podcast talking about his very successful Kickstarter.

Bryan (31m 21s):
Now I know his was with his RPG connected to his world's IP, but it's still connected. I have a student who crowd funds his, his comic books. I mean, there is just so much opportunity to branch, into connecting more directly with the consumer. And there's so many benefits. I think Alex peer Alex Jonty, who has had some amazing posts on the 20 bucks to 50 K group, he's had months of 50 to $100,000 a month selling direct from his, I believe he, he uses a Shopify store and I could be wrong about that, but I know he does it direct.

Bryan (32m 13s):
And he, and, and, and Michael and, and Chris and folks who do have that more direct relationship via email, they have the ability to pivot when something doesn't work as well on Amazon. And I think there may come a reckoning in 2021, 2022, if something funky happens with Kindle unlimited or audible, or what have you, the folks who have primarily relied on Amazon, who do not at the same time, grow their email list and their fan base, they could be in trouble.

Bryan (33m 3s):
I think that it's a really good idea to not put all your eggs in one basket and to always be growing your base of people and connecting with them.

Autumn (33m 14s):
Oh, I love, I absolutely love that message personally, because I'm wide. And I actually do sell off my website. I mean, it's small. I have a small list and I have a compared to these people you're referring to these other authors, but it is good and readers. I think I've gotten very savvy. Some, I mean, a lot of readers are also authors a little bit, so they know what's going on. But yeah, I do have some readers who will always go to my website and buy my books directly from me, or they'll at least asking what's the difference. And I just, I think that's fantastic. They understand a lot more about the marketplace than I think a lot of people realize. And that's good because it is, it is important that they're seeing a value in our writing and they want to support authors and have them write more books because that's the only way that they'll get more books is by supporting, you know, their favorites.

Autumn (34m 6s):
So that's, that's really interesting. So I did want to know. So we got into the author and writing conversation. So with everything you're working right now on the next challenge, which I'll have to ask you in a couple of minutes when that's going to happen. But first, so you're an author too. How much time do you get to write with all of these other things you're juggling, you have your own business and you have these challenges and so much going on.

Bryan (34m 38s):
Well, it's funny, I'm I, I sit in the hotel today, right? My it's funny. It's like, I've done this a few times now and now my, my three-year-old daughter says, let's go to your hotel and like

Autumn (34m 56s):
The hotel

Bryan (34m 57s):
Room that we can walk to, but yeah, it's adorable. So I sitting here working on the slides for the upcoming challenge, and I look at my I'm typing into a Neo two and I look, all right, well, how much have I written today? How much have I written? Then it's like 6,800 words after 6:00 AM onwards. And I write plenty, but I have not had much chance to write books of late. And it's been a couple years. And I, and I do miss it.

Bryan (35m 39s):
I think that I I'm hoping to fit them in, in 2021. I'm, I'm hoping to squeeze some in, but I also know that if I don't, I it's okay. Because as I often am telling a lot of the people, a lot of the authors I work with find the thing that is, is providing the most value. Find the thing that is providing the most profit, whatever your goal is, find the thing that is most achieving that. And then focus a lot more on that. Like if you have, you know, three readers from this series, you never finished from like five years ago and you have three readers who keep asking, don't do the old, well, people keep asking about it.

Bryan (36m 34s):
No, not people, not my readers, three readers, keep asking about it. And if only 20 people bought that series in total five years ago, then no, that is not the thing you should be working on unless it provides something else for you because you need to be working on the most important thing. The one thing as the Gary Keller book says, you need to find the one thing and you need to focus on that because it is so easy to be pulled in a million different contradictory directions.

Bryan (37m 16s):
And right now, writing a book might be a fun middle of the year project for me. But for now it's like, this is the thing that helps the most people. My, my goal in authored is to be at the point where if 10,000 authors emailed me on the same day, needing help of all different varieties that my team and I could actually handle that to me, could support basically the entire community at scale all at the same time.

Bryan (37m 58s):
And that is a goal that's going to take a long time to get. But the challenge right now is the thing that best fulfills that goal. And so everything creative, every I used airline points, but this hotel was not, was not cheap. Anything I can do to help that goal, that one thing, goal, that top priority goal I'm going to do. And I think everyone listening should do the same thing. That was just

Autumn (38m 36s):
Brilliant. And I just, so you know, you are already doing a fantastic job because I know any question that gets asked, any question I've asked in the challenge group, you or someone from your team has gotten back to. And usually several people have gotten back to and given tips and help, and actually spent the time where I know I've been in other places and challenges and other groups where, you know, you just kind of sometimes hear crickets when you ask that hard question. And yes, you even helped me once on a Permafree you trying to figure out what, what bid price to put in by the way it worked. So thank you for that. Yes, it's very good.

Autumn (39m 16s):
So when is this challenge you're working on, when is it going to be ready? When are you going to do your next one? You're sitting number six,

Bryan (39m 24s):
Number six, it's coming up January 11th. So Monday, January 11th and, you know, kicking off 2021. And as per usual, it'll be five days of videos. They're, they're not all contiguous. So they kind of do bleed in to the following week and there is a video of zeros, so it really ends up being six. And so just block out that whole, January 11th to about the 20th and, and that'll be a good time to, to work on it. And I can absolutely autumn give you the link to it. You can check it out.

Bryan (40m 5s):
And I'll probably put a link@sellingforauthors.com powers last January. Now that I'm thinking about it. And then, yeah, I I'm, the more the merrier, we always try to have like several dozen people at any given time just available to answer anything and everything so that we can help people at scale. Yeah.

Autumn (40m 30s):
I, one of my favorite things about your challenge is that it is not, it's five. You call it five days, but then, you know, with the zero, it's a six, but you give a break. There's always, I used to think it's usually between three and four, but you let people catch up on their homework and I've had to use that for sure. And it makes it a little less stressful. You don't, you don't feel so before behind you, you're like, okay, I've got the weekend. I can do this now. So that's always been wonderful.

Bryan (40m 58s):
Yeah. I, I know I would want the same. So I'm glad that you,

Autumn (41m 1s):
I found it helpful. It is. You're very, very kind to the authors. You help in many ways. Well, yes. So that's perfect. Cause this is going out on December 29th. So just 12 days from when this is live, it'll be time and you'll be done with it and you will not be in a hotel room. I'm pretty sure that's correct. Okay. Yes. So where else can listeners find you other than we'll put the links in show notes as well? Of course.

Bryan (41m 37s):
Sure. Well, I, if you like podcasts, you can also listen to the sell more books, show podcasts. We just did episode 340 something. I think. So. Thank you. That's that's been going for, I guess, six and change years. So we're happy to always keep doing that. And if you haven't listened to in like a year got a new co-host H Claire Taylor, who was just fantastic and definitely that, that, that is aside from the challenges. That's another great place to hang out with me.

Autumn (42m 19s):
Excellent. Well, thank you again for the time. Is there anything you would like to any last words of advice you want to give to authors out there for whether they're thinking of blurbs or marketing or AMS? Just some last bit of hope as we end 2020 as this will be like one of the last days of the year when this is released,

Bryan (42m 44s):
It's very, very, very likely that 2021 is going to be better than 2020. So please, if you have not taken into account that 2020 was very hard. If you've not taken that into account with your writing productivity, and you said I had a bad year writing, or if your sales have been down and you say I had a bad year of sales, just give yourself a little bit of, you know, leeway, give yourself a little bit of wiggle room because it was a hard year, very, very challenging for a lot of people.

Bryan (43m 26s):
And you should not hold yourself to the same high standards of the past when a generationally bad year comes around. So please be kind to yourself. And in 2021, continue to be kind as you do everything you can to snap yourself out of any funk and go do the work you need to do to be as successful as you hope to become.

Autumn (44m 1s):
That is a wonderful advice for the end of, I love that. A generationally trying your, it was, it was a doozy. It's one we'll talk about for a long time to come. So many means. Yes. Thank you again so much for joining us, Brian. We appreciate it. And I look forward to seeing you in just under two weeks in the AMS edge challenge.

Bryan (44m 25s):
Thank you, Adam. I'll see you there.

Autumn (44m 27s):
Bye. Join us next week when Yesper will be back and we'll be sharing some

3 (44m 32s):
Great book ideas that we don't think we'll ever get around to writing, but Hey, maybe they will inspire you.

Narrator (44m 41s):
If you like what you just heard. There's a few things you can do to support the am writing fantasy podcast. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Ottoman Yesper on patrion.com/and writing fantasy for as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep the M writing fantasy podcast going, stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 104 – What's To Come in 2021 & Happy Holidays!

The holidays are upon us as well as the last few weeks of 2020!

We take a quick look back to see how well we did with the goals we outlined a year ago and talk about where Am Writing Fantasy and the podcast is headed in the brand new year.

Plus, Happy Holidays to all of our listeners and Patreon supporters. We love having you share this time with us!

SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST!

Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review.  

Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you’ll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going. 

Narrator (4s):
You're listening to the M writing fantasy podcast in today's publishing landscape. You can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need an literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now on to the show with your hosts, Auden, Bert, and Gasper.

Jesper (32s):
Hello, I'm Jesper

Autumn (34s):
and I'm Autumn.

Jesper (36s):
This is episode 104 of the am. Riding fences, you podcast. And we are right before Christmas Episode releases. So first of all, Merry Christmas, everyone. Yes. Happy holidays.

Autumn (50s):
Hey, it is also the winter solstice. So that's kinda cool. Yeah. And th this episode might be slightly different from most probably shorter as well, but we'll see how that goes. We're notorious for our 40 minutes. So maybe now you never know. We'll see. But we wanted for one to talk about the year that passed and also the year to come for the am writing fantasy podcast, but above all, we wanted to thank you for listening.

Jesper (1m 24s):
And also say that we hope that you will have a wonderful Christmas. Are you feeling the Christmas mood yet?

Autumn (1m 33s):
Oh, well, I didn't expect you to play Christmas music. So I guess that's adorable.

Jesper (1m 41s):
Very, yeah, I was, I was actually playing the jingle there just to see if I could do something to get into the mood myself. Well you're yeah. I mean, you've had such a busy week. I mean, looking back with this as a recorded, who knows you're going to have your entire new apartment, like completely set up, but right now you're sitting on boxes and the darks. Oh yeah, yeah. And of course, we're also recording this a couple of weeks before Christmas. So while you might live well, when this release is it's going to be the 21st of December, but we actually recording it a few weeks in advance. So yeah, I'm not really in the mood at the moment, as you say, I've just been through over the last week, moving from the house to an apartment.

Jesper (2m 27s):
So it's, it's so messy and stressful. I do not feel very Christmas like at the moment. Oh, you'll get there. You'll get there. There'll be, especially with the two boys. You'll, you'll have lots to celebrate and it's a celebration and your first one in a new place, it's exciting new journey, a new stage of your guys's life. So you'll have a lot to celebrate. I'm sure it'll be fine. Yeah, that is true. Yeah. And I actually didn't open the computer once for about a week. Isn't that crazy? I don't know if that has ever happened before my computer would think that the world had ended. If I didn't touch it for a full say so, Oh, that's amazing.

Jesper (3m 7s):
That's going to feel very, Yeah, it, yeah. And I, every muscle in my body is like aching from moving. And, but we managed to cram an entire house into an apartment apart from the few things that we had, we put into a small storage room. But other than that, it's just like boxes. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think you'll get everything to fit or you think a few things, more things will go back to the storage unit? Well, the story's unit is full, so there's no. So it's staying in the apartment or it's being sold. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I hope, I hope we'll, we'll manage to find places for everything.

Jesper (3m 48s):
I mean, we did of course throw out a lot of things from the house that we just never used. And then we put in those things that we didn't want to throw out into the storage room. So I hope everything you will find its place. I mean, part of the problem at the moment is also that we sold some of the old furniture to the new owners of the house, because then we didn't have to move it. And it didn't quite fit in here style-wise either. So, so that was actually nice. But then we also had to go and buy a bunch of new stuff to replace it. So yesterday I was putting Ikea furniture together for, from, I got up in the morning to after dinner time in the evening.

Jesper (4m 32s):
And, and until all of that is put together, we don't have places to put, you know, so it's like cabinets and drawers and all kinds of stuff. So you need to put it together before we can start putting things in it. Right. So that's part of the problem right now as well. I actually have a confession. I really wish we were on the same land mass in Cottonelle because I absolutely adore putting together Ikea furniture. I don't know why the Alan keys and the instructions and seeing something take shape from a bunch of boards is actually like, I just, I volunteer whenever I see someone who has like Ikea, Oh, let me do it. So I wish I was there helping you feed me toasted money.

Jesper (5m 17s):
I would happily put together your furniture for you. So it's very unfortunate that there's this like pandemic. And I can't just hop on a plane because that would be a blast. Yeah. It's not, I wouldn't say that. I mind putting Ikea furniture together that much either. It's, it's not that I mind, but the problem for us at the moment is still does so much of it that it takes forever. I mean, I think we spent like two and a half thousand dollars on lucky furniture. So it's like The leather furniture from Ikea. Oh yeah. And especially that you can't really, especially, you're already in a crammed apartment with other people and boxes and you have to find a place to lay out all this stuff, build it and then build something else and move it around.

Jesper (6m 3s):
And you're yeah. You probably feel like you're building the walls of a labyrinth around you. Yeah. That's Pretty accurate. You think I've moved before. That's crazy. But I know you have Well for entire different reasons, but you've had a very busy week. Yeah. I did a kind of didn't think about it, which I'm glad November was a fantastic month. I joined nano I, I got my 50,000 words and I would not change that for a bit. But coming out of that, I suddenly realized that we're about to launch not one, not two but three new courses. And I had wanted to rebuild the course website for probably a year and a half, two years.

Jesper (6m 48s):
And I was going to do it this January. But if you're going to release courses, you're gonna have new people signing up. And one of them is free. So we're probably going to have a lot of people picking that one up. I realize that I officially, we started with just three days, but then we did rearrange some things. And you gave me a full week, which was exciting to rebuild a website of over 300 pages and featuring six courses, plus a free starter kit and some downloads. And it was, I will say though, I mean, this is hardly my first rodeo with a website, but this was the first time that I actually, every time I had an exclamation, it was not a curse word.

Jesper (7m 34s):
I almost found myself going, yes, I love you. I love this theme. I love what I'm doing. I love the help that's available. I was so excited. I mean, I think my husband, well, he knows I'm crazy cause he married a writer. So he knows there's a little touched, but I was just, I actually had a lot of fun when I was learning a few things. I didn't know. And then finding code written to solve problems that don't even realize it's going to have before I started doing this, I was just like, this is amazing. This is absolutely amazing. I think the website came out beautifully. I'm thrilled. I need a day off. And that's, I want to spend a whole day writing and just staring off at the clouds, the squirrels chasing each other through the woods.

Jesper (8m 22s):
Can't blame you. But, but, and I, especially like the, the add in that you found all the plugin, Which, which helps students to track Their progress. So it has like a program, Which I really like. I know I did find one thing. I've got to tweak on it in a couple of pages, but it's very, very minor, but there's internal navigation and there's like this progress tracker for students and it checks off a box on the menu that tells them they did that module. And it's just so awesome. I'm I'm really, like I said, I'm thrilled. It's better for the students. It's it's better. It looks better. It functions better from a coding standpoint.

Jesper (9m 4s):
So it's all, Oh, wins. Even if it might've grown another gray hair or two during the last week and maybe fried a brain cell, Oh, we go on the internet with the yam writing fantasy podcast. So I just noticed this morning that we had to Richard dropped back into the am, riding fences, who Facebook for the first time in a long while. And he shared how he, he should pick a list of, Of all the groups that he's a member and then check marks against all those that he actually posts into. Make sure he covers all of them. But the richest post just made me think about how it tied in pretty well with today's topic in the sense of cleaning up before the end of the year.

Jesper (9m 52s):
Tell me how many Facebook groups are you a member of autumn? Do you know? I don't want to know what I have to admit. I'm really bad because I rarely go on Facebook. And my mom's constantly didn't you see that photo? I posted a link. No, I only go to my group, so I don't want to know, but you're right. I, how many should I be a member of probably five. How many am I a member of? Probably over a hundred. Okay. Yeah. This probably happens to a lot of, you know, that they, a member of all kinds of groups that seemed interesting at the time and then they completely forgot about it. So yeah, I don't know this morning, I actually did a bit of cleanup and I'm down to something like, I think five groups that I'm a member of now, myself and nothing more.

Jesper (10m 40s):
I deleted all the other stuff that I'd never go and check anyway. Oh, excellent. That is exciting. And maybe, you know, I do like, I don't like to wait for new year's resolutions to make changes, but I do like the reminder of now's a good time to clean house and check my book manuscripts and do things along those lines. So I'm sure I have some Facebook groups I could whittle out myself. So that's a good idea. And I'm glad Richard found his way back to us and that hopefully he'll be popping back in more often. Yeah. And if It definitely, and if you're listening, Richard, thank you for stopping by. But of course in general, DM writing fences to Facebook group is normally quite active.

Jesper (11m 25s):
So if you're not a member yet just search for M writing fences in the group section of Facebook and then you can apply to become a member. And one of us we'll let you in, or maybe one of our moderators will. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. We were actually just in there before we started recording this. And what did I found that one post that had like 191 comments, there were a little active, just, just tat it's a great place to be. Yeah, absolutely. And there, there's a couple of thousand fantasy authors in there already, so it's actually a pretty good community. And if you know, if you have any questions or anything, you want some fellow authors to share some thoughts about, then that's a great place to post your stuff And to today's topic.

Jesper (12m 16s):
You know what I did, autumn, I've actually managed while I was in Facebook earlier today, I actually managed to dig out a Facebook post that I wrote on December 23rd, 2019. So like a year ago. Excellent. Yeah, because it was a post in which I summarized our goals for 2020. So how did we do, Oh, that's how I thought it would be a good workplace. Start here too. I could read out aloud that post and then we can just discuss how we think we did against those goals. That sounds perfect. I love this setup.

Jesper (12m 55s):
Let's go for it. Okay. So let, this is then me reading the post. First of all, allow autumn and myself to extend our blessings and love for all you wonderful writers. It's been a very busy year for us and 2020 is going to be no different last week. We agreed what we want to achieve in 2020. Number one, complete the world building course and release it. Number two, complete the self-publishing success course and release it. Number three, publish our short guide on story ideas. Number four, publish our step-by-step step system for plotting number five, publish a workbook for plotting number six, complete and release a brand new course on email marketing and number seven, redesign the am writing fantasy website.

Jesper (13m 51s):
And then it goes on to say, as you can see, that's quite a lot. Once all of that has been completed, we're going to focus entirely on new fiction series. If all goes well, we will write three to four books in 2021. We hope you are heading into a productive year writing and a huge thank you for being part of our community. We wish you a Merry Christmas and happy new years Ormond Yesper. That's a very good post. Yeah, I thought, and I thought it was so such a good starting point because actually if I'm looking down that list of items we wanted to do, I think we will.

Jesper (14m 30s):
They I'm writing fantasy website site is not quite done yet, but as we are recording a bit ahead of time here, it's probably going to be done before we hit new years. And if so, we can basically Mark all of these complete that's what I, with your listing them, I'm letting go. This is going to be something we haven't done. And we're like, world-building building course. Nope. Did that self publishing success? Nope. Did one. The books, All three of them, for least and were all bestsellers in August of bailing course. That is we haven't released it yet because we haven't decided when to, but it is, it is there, it is ready. I could release it tomorrow. And so, yeah, it's just the I'm writing fantasy website, which that won't take too long.

Jesper (15m 14s):
Hopefully by the time we're recording this, versus when we release it, maybe that'll be done. I don't think I've ever actually hit every single one of my goals, especially goals that big and ambitious and we haven't done more than we listed there. So that's just, we did the character building course. What's not even on the list. Yeah we, so that was your doing, you came up On the fly there in the middle of the year, In the middle of a pandemic. And so everyone was doing courses on a discount to help out keep people entertained and educated and optimistic. And we asked the people in the am writing fantasy, Facebook group, what would you like?

Jesper (15m 55s):
And they said a character development course. And we did it in like two weeks. Yeah, no, but actually, I mean, because one, one thing one could say when you review like a, to do list and say, okay, you tick off everything. One thing one could say would be, well, if it's just an easy list, then of course you can get all of it done. But actually this list has some huge items on them. You know, there are several full full courses here, the world-building course. Well that probably took us two and a half year to develop. And that was not done during 2020. That was a two and two years project and just finished up in 2020.

Jesper (16m 36s):
But there was a lot of very heavy items on this list that yes, some of it has been in the works since 2019, but just to get all of it finished up and released in 2020, I think, I don't think this is an ambitious list that we created at the end of 2019, to be honest. No, it was, I think a very ambitious list, but we had, we knew we had all of these things on the, on the burner and some of them had been cooking away more than long enough. And it was finally, this is the year. This is the year we're going to make it happen and we're going to get them done. And by doing that in the saying it, we, we really did it and it certainly didn't happen by sitting back saying, I hope it happens.

Jesper (17m 19s):
We've been working our butts off to make it happen. And he decided, you know, you sold a house and moved as well. So it's been really, and I have switched from a department to a cabin in the woods. So there's been even lots of moving, going on in our personal lives. Yeah. That's actually true. Yeah, yeah. Crazy year. Yeah, it has been, but I don't know if there's, is there more about 2020 or should we do a bit of forward-looking? I don't think so. I mean, we knew when we came into that, we had said basically from the get-go it was going to be a platform building year. We were going to finish up a lot of our projects so that we could look ahead and that's where we're at is 2021.

Jesper (18m 0s):
We're looking ahead. And I don't think our plans or our goals has changed much from what we posted in 2019. No, not really. It's pretty much on track with that. And I would also say from the perspective of this podcast, I don't think that much, I mean, we don't have any plans as such to change anything. We'd probably just going to keep going with the same, let's say frequency, but also the same format that, that listeners know today. I don't think we don't. We, well, we don't really have any plans listed of things.

Jesper (18m 42s):
We want to change with the podcast as such either. No, but I think this would be a good chance for listeners once, you know, you get over your holiday cheer and, and have a moment to reflect. If there's anything you would like to see in 2021, if you would like any topics you would want us to cover people. You want us to interview that you think would be cool. Do you drop it into the comments and let us know? And we would love to see what your ideas are, but I think, I mean, I'm really happy. We hit a hundred episodes in 2020, and I'm looking forward to 2021 and watching that number increase in watching the number of listeners increase. I mean, every, the stats go up every week.

Jesper (19m 23s):
So I'm really happy. I think a lot of writers are finding us and liking us and coming back and unless someone is going to comment differently, I'm just going to keep believing in that. Yeah. I was actually looking into some of the stats earlier today because actually we launched this podcast in February, 2019 and it grew really quickly, you know, by the end of the first year. So coming into the beginning of 2020, we had increased the monthly downloads by more than 10 times from where we started. So that was pretty encouraging as we were heading into 2020.

Jesper (20m 6s):
And then I would say from there, the podcast has grown a bit throughout the year, this year as well, but not nearly as close as it did in 2019, which is of course not surprising because that was it's, it's much easier to gain a huge percentage increase once you don't have much from a starting point, right. Zero to 10 is really big. Yeah. Yeah, indeed. So, but it has been growing throughout 2020 as well. So on one hand that's okay. On the other hand, you know, 2020 has been a bit crazy with coronavirus, the U S election and so on and so on.

Jesper (20m 46s):
So I think as we are heading into 2021, now that's also the time where I, at least personally, I would like to start see some more growth in the listenership of this podcast. Yeah. That would be really, I would be excited about that myself too. I think they're out there, but yeah, it's been a year. I mean, most people, I mean, when I listen to podcasts, it's usually while I'm driving or walking or, you know, commuting, things like that. And a lot of us are teleworking. So the commute time is between, you know, the bedroom and the home office is a lot shorter than most people who had to drive before. So I think that's probably impacted things a little bit.

Jesper (21m 26s):
At least I'm hopeful. I certainly know there's been more engagement and I do see some downloads, but I think it's always a good goal to try to increase listeners and see this grow because I, you know, I'm a gardener and ecologist in my blood, so I like to see things grow. Doesn't it's happy. Yeah, absolutely. So if you are the listener one to help us out a bit here, then there's actually a number of things that you can do as a, As a little Christmas gift for Yeah. To put us on the right path for 2021. So number one, if you haven't done so already, please leave a rating and review of the podcast wherever you listen to it, because it actually makes a huge difference in terms of the different podcast aggregators proposing, or suggesting our podcast to new listeners is so they go off the ratings and reviews and if there's a lot of them, then they will suggest our podcast to junior listeners as well.

Jesper (22m 27s):
So that will help. And secondly, if you know, a writer, why not mention this podcast to that person, it's, it's sort of like a win-win situation, right? That, that, that other person will be happy to learn of a new podcast to listen to. And that you've done a good deed and that's pretty much in line with the Christmas spirit. Yeah. That would be the best. I'm a hard person to give Christmas presents to because well, you know, I write and I draw and I, I mean, what can people give me other than time? My laptop's functioning I'm happy. So that would be a fantastic present. I think though, to put into our stockings, if people would go ahead and leave a review and mentioned it to other folks or in other groups, I would so appreciate it.

Jesper (23m 11s):
I know we'd both, so appreciate it and make us feel warm and fuzzy, which is definitely the holiday spirit. Yeah. So I don't know, I'm sort of thinking that this is an episode right before Christmas autumn, and I know people are busy. So I'm almost thinking that I was gonna head into wrapping things up here for, for today's episode. But I don't know if you have anything important to mention before I get into that. No, I think I'm just hopeful 2021 is a crazy Year globally. And I think, you know, unless we get into our personal wishlist and goals for the year that I think as a podcast and as I'm writing fantasy, you know, we're hoping to write some books, get some stuff put together and not have quite a year is going to be our cookie or dessert after a year of flat for the building.

Jesper (24m 7s):
I'm so looking forward to the, working on the books we've been, and again, it's not like we're just going to start from scratch in January. We've been working on the outlines and the plots and the character development in the world building. So I think we're ready to hit 20, 21 I'm running. Yeah. We're looking so much forward to it. And I, we're also looking forward to record a lot more podcast episodes for you in the year to come and thank you for listening during the year that passed. And if you weren't out there, all of you, you know, if we didn't get any support on Patrion, if we didn't get some emails, once in a while, or somebody tweeting us once in a while to let us know that this podcast actually means something to you, then I doubt we would have concluded that we were going to continue for 2021.

Jesper (24m 60s):
So thank you so much for, for all that support out there. We appreciate it. Every comment, every review we read them, we appreciate them. And then when we get a chance, if especially if it's via email, we try to get back to people. So thank you for all of the support and the reviews and the kind words we really, it means so much to us, right? So next Monday West in there, right between Christmas and new year, autumn will have a very interesting interview with the wonderful Brian Cohen for you.

Narrator (25m 36s):
If you like, what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to support the am writing fantasy podcast. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Ottoman Yesper on patrion.com/and writing fantasy for as little as a dollar a month, you'll get awesome rewards and keep the M writing fantasy podcast going, stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 103 – Re-releasing an Existing Book or Series!

If one of your books, or series, aren't selling much, will it help to change the book cover, the book description (also known as the blurb), or will it be a lot of effort for nothing?

In episode 103, Autumn share the results after she re-released one of her book series.

Tune in to learn all the do's and don'ts.

As promised here's the link to the free Self-Publishing Success course: https://ultimatefantasywritersguide.com/self-publishing-success/ 

Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday. 

SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST!

Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. 

Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy.

For as little as a dollar a month, you’ll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going.

Read the full transcript below.

(Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Narrator (2s):
You're listening to the Am Writing fantasy podcast in today's publishing landscape. You can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now onto the show with your hosts, Autumn Birt, and Jesper Schmidt.

Jesper (30s):
Hello, I'm Jesper, and I'm, Autumn. This is episode 103 of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. Well, today, Autumn, you recently went through some renaming and rebranding of your books. So that's something we wanted to talk a bit about today.

Autumn (48s):
Yeah. I definitely have some reasons why you might want to do it some stats because you know, we like to provide that kind of information and things to watch out for that. I didn't think about the first part, but that we'll get to that. Right. You're in the middle of some big events going on. So how are you doing over there?

Jesper (1m 11s):
Oh, I'm good. I was, well, today has been one of these organization days. I was setting up some emails this morning to announce the VIP launch of the world building course that we talked about last week and I've just also just trying to get organized in general before I actually, tomorrow I take the rest of the week off because I'm going to move out of our house and into the apartment, as I've mentioned a few times. So if everything goes well by Friday, this week, we should be living in our new place by then. That's amazing. That'll be really exciting. And I hope it does go well because it'll be a lot of work, but it's so exciting.

Jesper (1m 53s):
Cause you've been working on this for like two years. So it's really, really cool. It's finally here. You're doing it. Yeah, it was actually in November two years ago that we first put the house up for sale. So it is just, just past two years since, since this whole journey started. So that's quite amazing. Amazing. Yeah. So we were actually thinking that if all goes well and we do move into the apartment and start living there by Friday, we did think about going because the apartment is much more centrally located than our house. So it's like I've said before, it's in the main city in this area.

Jesper (2m 33s):
So there are, that also means that there are restaurants around. So we actually thought about a Saturday going to this very nice sushi place that is, and we don't have to drive there. Now we can just walk, walk.

Autumn (2m 46s):
So that's pretty nice. That's going to be kind of cool. I might be a little envious because I lived in town when I first moved to where we are in Vermont and I didn't enjoy the noise. Cause it was only a second floor apartment and we're right at an inter big intersection. But you know, we could, especially, this was before COVID. So there was like Tuesday nights, if we walked down to one pub, there was always a group of fiddlers playing and doing a jam session together. And then there was a yeah, the bookstore. And if we decided we needed something else for dinner, there was a grocery store, a small one, a co-op that was within walking distance. So I do kind of miss that. So that is super cool. You're going to be living that close to everything.

Jesper (3m 29s):
Yeah. That's nice. And we are, yeah. As I said before, we are right next to the beach, so there's no like big, there's no big road right next to the buildings or anything like that. So that's quite nice. And we are on the fifth floor and there is because we have a corner apartment up there. It also means that there is only one wall against, you know, to watch a neighbor. There's nobody above us. And there there's only somebody below, so it should at least the person who rented it before us, that it was very, very quiet. And that's exactly what I like. So I hope that's true.

Autumn (4m 8s):
I hope so too. That's really awesome.

Jesper (4m 13s):
Yeah, but you've been extremely busy as well on UN

Autumn (4m 16s):
Yeah. Well we had some big plans to, you know, do some website rebuilding at am, writing fantasy. And I was going to rebuild the course website in January, except we've been building all these courses and it finally dawned on me. I needed to have the new website done before we made those live. So I've been, I'm doing an emergency website build over the weekend, but I promised myself that once I, I got that done, I would take two days off whenever it was because, Hey, when you're a full-time writer, what's Saturday, Saturday, it can be Thursday if you happen to get it done then. So I'll, I'll have my, my weekends. I usually try to do more Photoshopping and more fun things for me with other store on the computer.

Autumn (5m 1s):
I mean, it is almost December in Vermont. So that's kind of the Northern tier of the United States. And it's even today is cold. It is dark. I have all the lights on it is raining. So it's not like I'm going to go for a hike. I just want to go and do something else. But I did. I said after our last episode, even though this is now December when it's going to be released, but today is the last day of November. So it's the last day of nano right. Mo and you want to know my word count.

Jesper (5m 37s):
I did see your Facebook post about it. And I'm trying to remember now what it was, but I felt like it was something like 51,000 or something. If I remember correctly, I'm not sure.

Autumn (5m 49s):
Yeah. That's on the November 25th. I updated my word count to just over 52,000 words. So yeah, I finished it and I started on the 17th. It actually took me 19 days to get the 50,000 words. So I feel it considering it was my 23rd book. That's going to be published. I, I was hoping I could manage to get to it. So I was it's success and I've kept adding to it since then. So I'm almost at 60,000 words now for the month, today was busy and I haven't added in anything, but it'll be hovering just around 60,000 for my first nano. So I feel really good and I'm thinking it was fun.

Autumn (6m 30s):
And I do see there's been some emails and stuff from them about, you know, writing the end and I'm like, well, 50,000 words is not a fantasy. No, that's like halfway through a fantasy novel. So I'm thinking, Oh, you know what, maybe we need to think about doing like an am writing fantasy NaNoWriMo writing group. Cause you can have writing groups there that share tips and support. So I'm my, you know, that's a good question for listeners. I mean, is anyone else out there interested in having us or me lead a little nano right. Mo group writing group of maybe even at camp nano right.

Autumn (7m 11s):
Mow this summer. So, you know, comment, let us know if it's something that you think would be pretty cool and I can try to help you get your 50,000 words too.

Jesper (7m 21s):
Hmm. That's actually a pretty good idea. Yeah. Teaming up is always a good idea. And it has some accountability partners.

Autumn (7m 29s):
It has, especially when you get to some of the sticky parts that can really slow you down and you get frustrated and you sometimes just need someone to like really you out of it and get you on and keep going.

Jesper (7m 41s):
Yeah. Oh, we got the internet with the yam writing fantasy podcast. So I saw a post in the am writing fantasy Facebook group this morning. That quite made me smile

Autumn (7m 54s):
LA what's that? Oh, it's just a,

Jesper (7m 58s):
It's a small one, but it was quite nice. I thought it was like John was pointing out how once in a while a particular well-written turn of phrase is just sort of happens and pour it onto the page. And then he shared what he had just written here and it went like this quote. He looked at me then he's expression dripping with so much contempt. It likely stained the floor. That was quite good.

Autumn (8m 27s):
Good. I love it. When people share and have quotes and stuff on there, that is fantastic. I have to admit though, I've been smiling at Zane's comment from when we released the hundredth episode and he left a comment on a Patriot Patriot and for us. So I don't know if you remember that one,

Jesper (8m 47s):
Remind me,

Autumn (8m 48s):
Hey, he said that he was so excited that he had to go have a beer. And that one made me smile because I have had men grown men tell me that my writing made them cry, but I had yet to ever have someone telling me that something we had done ni paid them money to eat alcohol. So I thought that wasn't very successful way of toasting our hundredth episode that we released. And it was so much fun to do as well. Absolutely.

Jesper (9m 19s):
Yeah. There, there are all kinds of shenanigans going on in the Facebook group, but also some cool tips and tricks and advice that is shared every day. So if you're not a member yet just search for am writing fantasy in the group section of Facebook and then apply to become a member and we will let you in, there's not even a password. So it's true. You're very welcome.

Autumn (9m 43s):
Yeah. I don't think we even ask any like entry questions. So we're, we're really easy. We just just make you ask nicely and you get to come in and have a ton of fun in the Facebook group. And, and of course, and if you want to have even more fun, you can come over and join us on Patrion and, and there you get even more, more personal seizing, I guess, and tips and lots of fun as well. We do sometimes have some fun, some back and forth on there and some jokes.

Jesper (10m 13s):
So a lot of good places where you could join. So yeah. Get going. If you haven't done so already

Narrator (10m 20s):
And onto today's topic

Jesper (10m 24s):
Last week, I sort of took the reins on the podcast, but I think this week is probably your turn

Autumn (10m 32s):
This time, you get to pretend to be the interviewer and ask me how it went. Yeah.

Jesper (10m 38s):
And I can, I can try to chime in here and there with reflections and thoughts, but of course in full transparency, I have not gone through any rebranding of my own books, although I really should, but I haven't. So I don't have any personal experience to share, but I can try to pitch in where I feel that I have something to contribute with them.

Autumn (10m 59s):
That's fair enough. Well, I think it's a good thing to say that, you know, it's not, it's, it's not random who decides they want to rebrand a book. I remember Joanna Penn was the first one who introduced me to even the concept of it. Cause she rebranded, recovered and retitled a lot of her thriller sale series. And I was like, wow, that is when you see someone, you know, Joanna Penn's level, it's one thing to change your cover. But the change changer titles and you know, she was talking about, you know, making sure her readers knew this is a book you've already gotten. Don't worry about it. This is something, you know, this is, you've already read it. It's just a different title. It looks different. It's a different cover. So that is, is something that authors do, no matter what lever was, if you're a newbie or you've been doing this for 10 years or more, you might suddenly decide that something's not working in your marketing and what's not marketing, what's not working is, you know, the title, the actual physical title of your book or the series.

Autumn (11m 59s):
And not just the cover because yes, rebranding is is can just be the cover. And I have to admit, I think born of water, I have gone through four different covers. Changing a cover is honestly super easy, but of course I'm a graphic designer. So if I want to change my cover, I, I know what to do. I'm responsible for that. Cause I'm the one who messed it up the first place or decided that it changed. I mean the marketing market really has changed since like 2012 when I first released that book.

Jesper (12m 31s):
Yeah. And of course, as we've said before, do not design your own book cover unless you are experienced in book cover design and you know what you're doing to not design your own book cover. And I think I've said it multiple times in different podcast episodes, but I cannot say it enough because for whatever reason it keeps popping up. I see it on Facebook all the time people asking, is it, would it be okay if I designed my own cover? And sometimes I almost feel like jumping on this. I know, but then I think, okay, whatever, I can't keep saying the same thing all over and over again, but do not design your own book covers.

Autumn (13m 9s):
No, even if you have an art background book covers are more than an artistic expression, it is a marketing image. It is, you really need an advertising background and advertising courses and to then know how to look through the market and see what are the trends that you need to do, what need to match, what do you need to be different for? So I agree. Don't do it. I know when I look back at, when I first started doing book covers, I was like, Oh my goodness, they were horrible. And even now I think I could still do better, but I think that's just my issues as a, Oh gosh, I've been, I don't want to even mid hell. My, one of my first memories is literally when I was like three or four and I was drawing. So I've been doing this for a little while now.

Autumn (13m 50s):
I think, I think for decades I still have a lot to learn.

Jesper (13m 56s):
Yeah. But I think maybe a good place to start as well would be like asking the question. Why would you want to rebrand a book or series in the first place? Absolutely. I think that's, that's a good starting question.

Autumn (14m 11s):
It is. And I, again, because I just did this, I have the perfect case example. So I had a book and it is the next, it's the first book and the next series I planning on releasing in 20 early 20, 21. And when I came up with the cover, I don't know if we've read or the title. I don't think I listed, I don't think we recorded episode 37, which is how to title a book that we released. And it's full of really useful tips that you should do before you actually choose a name for your book. But I didn't do that because I don't think we had recorded it yet. And I do tend to go a lot with my gut instinct on things. And sometimes don't run marketing. It was so 20 early, I released this book in 2019 and I came up with the title, the light and the darkness, because it is a definitely a novel where the main character goes is living in a dark world.

Autumn (15m 6s):
And he finds something that inspires him. It's a little bit of light in the darkness of basically a fake post-apocalyptic novel is what I like to call it. So it's based on Fay and I chose a series name called the Calla Bray, which in Gaelic, it means dark time or dark epoch, which is great. But you don't have many people on this planet speak Gaelic. Not that many. No. I think it's less than half a percentage. So if I was trying to market to someone who speaks Gaelic, even though there's no other Gaelic in the book, well, no, there's some names, there are names and things that are, are a little bit Gaelic it's yeah, it was not a good marketing choice.

Autumn (15m 47s):
And I kind of knew that when I released it, but 2019 was a very, we we've had a podcast of episode. I'd get that one. But 2019 was a very hard year. For me. It was worse than 2020 in many ways, 2020, in some ways I've gotten my crap together and I feel much better as a person, despite the global pandemic, which is just crazy. But it goes to show what's going on outside. Doesn't mean what's going on in the inside. So 2019 was a bad year. I was just happy to get this book released. And I chose these things that if you have, when I finally sat down and looked at the marketing and wondering like, okay, I'm writing this book, I'm getting serious about marketing it.

Autumn (16m 28s):
And I'm doing some research and seeing, you know, getting some idea of how it's going to sell and how it's going to hit the marketplace. And so I do a Google or an Amazon search and a Google search for the light and the darkness. And I get a ton of self help books. I don't even get my own book. I mean, my own book is like back there and like the dose bleeds section that you're like, okay, it doesn't even exist. And you do a search for Callan, right. You know, there's no one who's going to know how to spell that. Nobody's going to search that. No, no, exactly. And I thought, you know what? This is a problem. This is a problem. It doesn't help the book. I want this book to do as well as I can make it possible.

Autumn (17m 9s):
And so I had to step back and I'd already recovered the book. I did a very basic symbol cover that I didn't like. And so I've already put in a much more dynamic cover that a lot of people have commented on. They really like it, but the title just doesn't do anything. And I finally sat down and said, you know what? I have to listen to podcast 37 and do some research and retitle it and do this seriously. And then figure out, you know, will this help. And I have some before and after stats on what choosing a new name meant for how this book is doing. And again, this is the only book in the series that is out yet. I, the rest of them, I haven't even put them on pre-order.

Autumn (17m 51s):
I'm hoping by the middle of December, I'll have my act together and have the pre-orders up for the rest of the series for next year. But right now it's just a standalone novella. It's sitting up there without the rest of it's the rest of its family that is coming. But so you're gonna have a question or

Jesper (18m 11s):
No. Well, I don't know question, but I was just thinking, because one thing is the title and the cover reflecting market trends, I guess, or reflecting the and market expectations, read expectations, that's sort of one thing. And, and usually that then translates into lack of sales. So that's sort of your, that's sort of the main driver behind rebranding, a book and a series. But at the same time, I was just thinking as well, that unless not necessarily thinking about your example here, but more in general, like, unless you completely missed the Mark.

Jesper (18m 60s):
I think one of the nice things with fantasy compared to many others, young writers is that the market trend, if we can call it that or read the expectations, they don't change that rapidly when it comes to fantasy, you know, we'll see, we continue to love dragons, right.

Autumn (19m 19s):
Brackets on the cover. It's a winner. So that doesn't yeah,

Jesper (19m 26s):
Yeah, yeah. But that I agree, but my poem was more like, it doesn't change that much where I think others, young writers are much more prone to stuff changing much more frequently in terms of what the trends are. So, so in those Sean Morris, the authors might need to keep much more finger on the pulse to say, Oh, go, okay. I need to change my covers now because they are one and a half year old and market trends have moved. Whereas I think for us, maybe you need to have a look at your covers every three, four years, but that's, that's probably more to do with that. The artwork can be made much more beautiful at a less cost.

Jesper (20m 8s):
So it might be worth updating your cover to just more beautiful pictures without really changing the cover, but more like just make them look a bit better. And so that they don't look outdated, whereas the actual imagery and stuff like that might be absolutely fine to keep as long as you refresh it, where some others young wrists, they might have to change all the imagery. So I think in that sense, we are a bit more lucky.

Autumn (20m 37s):
I think so too. And I think even our titles can stand usually the test of time. If you choose a proper title, it doesn't even matter. You know, sometimes someone's going to up something very similar, but the market can usually handle it. There's a lot of fantasy books and it helps to, I would say the biggest thing is to be clear, but clear in your titles and clear on what your story is about, but when it does come to the covers and the imagery, I mean, I still think of some of the covers that are, I mean, Mercedes Lackey. I literally the books that I remember reading those cover is the same as when I was reading it as a teenager, it's it doesn't need to be changed. It is an illustrated cover and it is still gorgeous, which I think is fantastic.

Autumn (21m 20s):
And so there's a lot, even though there's some trends that are current changing, like the colors and the magic right now are just absolutely amazing right now on eBooks. But if you could, if you still have a top end, more of a hand drawn image, that's still going to do amazingly well, because I think we're all still in love with, you know, picking up those books in the 1980s that remind us of those paperbacks that we loved as, as teenagers. You know, maybe the younger kids might not remember that, but I still think they see the trends and the what was there at the time, but it really, it isn't something you need to do every year.

Autumn (22m 3s):
It is probably if your book's not selling, it's not the first place I would start. But if you have an instinct that you titled your book, something very strange and hard to understand, like the light and the darkness. And it brings up a whole bunch of self-help books, which are not even the right and Shannara, that's not a good sign, but if you choose like you have an interesting world name, like Chronicles or something like that, you know, it's probably not the best title. That would be a better series title maybe than a single book title, but it's not horrible for the fantasy genre, but

Jesper (22m 43s):
Did you just make that up? I did pretty good. Quick copyright it, spell it. No, but it was more like coming up with that on top of your head that it was pretty good. Thank you. Lots of writing recently, 50,000,

Autumn (23m 3s):
Whereas apparently in November, but so I, I knew I had to retitle it and I did a lot of research and I ended up coming up with a dark Faye outcast because it fits, it's a face story. It's about a dark Fe he's kicked out. I mean, it's pretty much, you know, calling what is it? The pot calling the kettle black is the phrase. It fits the book. It's very blunt titling. It works on the keywords. And I went from Cal Ray for a serious name to the tainted Fe because at his perfect, I kind of wanted broken magic, but that's already been used. And I didn't feel like tangoing with the person who's already using that one, but no one has the tainted Fe already took it. Don't even try grabbed it already.

Autumn (23m 46s):
But so I did that and what I had been doing, I don't have a ton of marketing into it yet. Not till I get up my pre-order. So this is just looking at the stats of running book, funnel giveaways. And I have three books, all with signup pages that were created about the same day at the end of may. And that's two novellas and one that's a lead in for my current eight book series. And what I thought was interesting is to show you, if you are struggling with marketing and you really do think it is your title, the difference is at the time I changed the title for dark Faye out cast on October 14th.

Autumn (24m 30s):
And that day I had what would be considered a usual up rate for born to darkness, which is my one Novell. I had six people pick that up. I had three pickup people pick up born of water, which is the lead into my big series. Guess how many people? And usually I would have the same for the light and the darkness. I know the title of the light in the darkness I'd have maybe two or three as well. So on that first day, when I changed the title, a guest, how many downloads I had of that as a free book in just a random book funnel, you know, joint author promo. Hmm.

Jesper (25m 4s):
Well, it has to be positive because otherwise the point of changing it. So let me say 10,

Autumn (25m 10s):
No 55th. Okay.

Jesper (25m 14s):
That's that's a massive paints. It was. But, but the thing is also with your new title and your new series named it, is it speaks directly to the attended audience by saying exactly what it is. There is no doubt, you know, it is people, if you like reading face stories, this is your book, right? It is. So it's right there in your face. And, and that's, that's the whole point of it, right? It needs to be crystal clear so that there's no doubt. What is this about? Yes. That's the kind of book that you like, you will click, you'll pick it up if you don't like it, when you skim through, you'll just skip it and that's, and that's a good thing, right? So you can get the right readers and not random readers.

Autumn (25m 53s):
And that was what I think I, I saw at that point is, I mean, it had, it's a very strong cover with someone you can't quite see his face and he's holding some ruins or falling from his hand. So it's, it's, it's Fe it looks Fe has some ruins and things on it. It's kind of dark and brooding. And then with this title, it's just, I knew it was right. I knew it was right in the market. What's neat is that was not a one day thing. It went from maybe two to maybe four or five downloads a day to staying above 30 to 40 for over a month. And it just, it has stayed up there. So at this point, as of I checked on just yesterday on the 29th of November, you know, board of water, which is to me is it was my debut novel, but it's the one with the full two full series.

Autumn (26m 41s):
I mean, this is a ton of work in time. That's going into this book. So it's usually what I market and promote the most that's only sitting at just under 600, 600 downloads were born into darkness is almost the exact same, just a little bit less. So those two are pretty similar, almost a thousand downloads. So over, almost double for dark Fey outcast. And they were all created at the same time. And all of that, that extra 500 has come since October 14th. So in a month and a half, I've gotten almost 500 downloads and that's pretty good. That's really, I mean, one, it makes me excited because I'm about ready to release the rest of the series. So I'm like, Ooh, this is a good thing to discover.

Autumn (27m 24s):
So this is when you know, this is, I knew it was a bad title. This to me proves it. This is the proof positive of the power of a title that you need to really consider what you're taught early or not. You need to have a strong cover, but you need to have a strong title that is very clear. So that readers see it. There's no doubt it is. You have, what is it? Three seconds to convince a reader, to read your blurb and look at it. And I have to admit, I did update my blurb as well. Not much, just a little tweaking. I added another sentence or two to bring up a romance subplot that's in there. So that's all it took to double again to download, right? Cause I haven't put out advertising to it at all yet.

Jesper (28m 6s):
Yeah. The eye tracking analysis that was made on having people look at Amazon showed that it was six seconds before they clicked away in total. Right? So, so you have those six seconds where their eyes will always seek up to the top left corner first. And guess what's there, that's the cover on, if you think of the, a book page on Amazon, you'll have the CAPA, the cover at the top left-hand corner, that's where the eye goes first. Then they go to the title. Then they go to the blurb. And that movement of the eye that was tracked in this analysis, take six seconds. And within this D six seconds, they have decided either to buy it or to leave it.

Jesper (28m 48s):
So that means that you really have to deliver on all the notes, meaning that the cover has to be a hundred percent professional. For one, it has to be a hundred percent on brand speak a hundred percent to the intended audience that this is a book for me, the title needs to do the same thing. And then of course the, the blurb needs to close the deal. And only when all the three things are in place, will it convert as best as it can? I mean, I guess you could say, okay, if you have one of them slightly weaker than it could be, you can still have something that converts quite well, but it could be better.

Autumn (29m 25s):
Right? And that I think is the important thing. I mean, to me, the title, the old title was so weak that, I mean, I wasn't even seeing much in sales and I have seen sales since then my reader list goes and buys it every single time I send out a newsletter, which is kind of, I always like to do exactly. Like I had an increase in sales. Oh, that's why it's very exciting. But I will say something. We talked about all the positives, this is the thing, you know, the good things. This is why it's worth it because it's, if you don't see that kind of change. Oh my goodness. It was quite a lot of work because you don't realize all the places you have your book, unless you're maybe on Kindle unlimited, if you're wide, like I am and you are, and you are in book funnel and a distributor and Kobo and Google books and all of these places, book, funnel, story origin.

Autumn (30m 23s):
It seemed like every time I turned around, I'm like, Oh, I have to have that, that place too. I forgot about that file. It was a little bit of a nightmare. I have to say it took me some time

Jesper (30m 34s):
In tweet on Twitter and all kinds of, I mean, but, but this is exactly why, I mean, I know that I'm actually in the self puppets success course in one of the modules, I'm actually using my own cover as an example of what not to do, because it, it is. I mean, I explain all the details in the course about it. And I also say in the course that I really should change them. Right. But because of what you just mentioned is the reason why I have not done it because I just know it's a lot of work. I mean, yes, I could, you know, I could ask you very nicely to do a new cover for me. So it probably wouldn't even cost me any money, but just the amount of work that goes into one thing is uploading them to all those different places.

Jesper (31m 20s):
But then I have to hunt down, where is all the reoccurring social media posts I have going with this covered? And I didn't have to change if I change the title. I mentioned it in a million places in different, and then I have to go and change it. All those it's just like, nah, it's a lot of work. Right. I mean, and then of course you could say, well, it doesn't matter because what I would say, if somebody said what I just said to us in a Q and a session, like we run on, on patron once a month. Yeah. Slide wise to them would be, well, you have a very long career in front of you. So if it takes you one week now and you can benefit it from it, the next 20 years, it is well worth the effort.

Jesper (32m 4s):
That would be my response and advice. And I don't even do it myself. So yeah, it's double standards here. I know, but it's just like on the to-do list of things that I feel like it's gonna move the needle the most, for example, releasing our new courses and stuff like that. It is an important part of our business between you and me. Just as much as writing books. So from a revenue perspective, going back and updating that book series, there there's only three books in it. So the read-through, it's not massive amounts of money versus releasing new courses that is going to earn quite a lot more money.

Jesper (32m 46s):
It's just like, it's so far down the to-do list that it's not that it's not important, but it's just not as important, more important than others. And some of the other things. So, and I guess now I have it in this public success cost to explain as a bad example. So now it even serves a purpose.

Autumn (33m 2s):
So there you go. Well, I've always said we, we tend to live our life as an experiment so that other people don't have to, this is definitely the other side. I mean, again, it, it helped that the impetus for me was definitely that this is the next series I'm going to release. And for me, you know, till I take a weekend, which is usually my time and I decided to rename and rebrand my book because I can hire myself on the fly on the weekend to redo a new cover, which I already had to cover. That was positive. So it was literally just doing the research and coming up with the new name and then realizing that that meant a whole new website or web page on my site to go with a new series name.

Autumn (33m 44s):
Cause I read with my series on their own pages and updating marketing images, but you're right. I mean, there are a ton of marketing images. Like I have to made with the new title where I had probably 20 made before, because that's see, that's what I do for a hobby is marketing images. I'm really strange that way. It makes me happy, but I have tons of them with the old title, but now I only have a few that I go to because I just haven't made the time. I haven't made the time to make the new, the rest of this series covers yet. So I have not worried about

Jesper (34m 18s):
No, but yeah. Yeah. But you caught it early as well. Of course. I mean that, that was good. That made the amount of work less hours. But do you have any idea, you know, in terms of creating new covers, uploading everywhere, redoing slightly on the blurb and stuff too, do you know how much time do you think you spend in total on it?

Autumn (34m 40s):
I would say, okay. Ignoring the fact that I have a horrible internet. So anyone in the rural United States or rural Africa or Australia probably can relate to the internet speeds I suffer through off of cell phone, dial up. So ignoring that if it's just upload time, Amazon is the worst. If it's just a single book, it really it's maybe four hours. It really isn't bad because you've got to figure out where you're going and your own website, assuming you don't have to send it to someone else. If you can do it yourself and just upload it, maybe four hours max, once you have the new title and everything, and you redo your ebook files, you usually have to compress your new cover into it as well, as well as upload the new cover.

Autumn (35m 25s):
So it's uploading the new file and the new cover. But I had, I have to admit, I had a slight snafu with the amount of work that this caused me that I didn't think about when I first started doing it and really made me kick myself. And I will never probably change a book name or a series title again, unless I'm really no, I did a bad, bad job, which I trust you will make sure that I don't do that again. Testing you run all my covers, my, my titles by you after this. Well, I have even taken away that we have three, so maybe five fiction books. I have all of my books listed in all my other books.

Autumn (36m 8s):
So I have 15 books. I had 15 books or so I had to up date all the titles, but I also took the advantage of it. I updated my author photo, which I just had a new author photo taken because my husband's a photographer. So that was kind of, you know, I, I made him sit down, told him I wouldn't feed him again until he got it and took a photo of me look decent. And I updated my blur because where I, what I'm doing has changed. So I took some time to do a few, you know, make sure all of my links and stuff were going, but that, that literally between that, and really managing to get everything uploaded and that Amazon takes is a multi-step approach. And plus I updated all my paperbacks.

Autumn (36m 50s):
So we went from 15 to 30 book formats. I had to update, Oh yeah. Oh, that was, it literally took me a month, but I wasn't working on it continuously. I'd kind of come back to it. And the last one I did was Google play. And I have to admit that one was the fastest one to update. Oh yeah. So Amazon was the most painful, especially having to do the e-book and the paperback and with the upload speed. And then when you do the paperback, you have to go back into the paperback previewer. It doesn't let you go past that state. And it literally takes 10 to 15 minutes for the paperback previewer to open for me per book.

Autumn (37m 29s):
It was, yeah, that was the worst, the most painful part. So that was one of those things where it's like I said, I was never doing it again. Unless I had a virtual assistant where I could be like, here you go have fun. Here's my passwords.

Jesper (37m 44s):
No, that's true. And I've also seen sometimes people saying, well, once you do the cover, redo the covers and the titles won't that confuse your readers. But actually, I mean, unless you change the identification number on the store's like ACIN number on Amazon, for example, it doesn't matter because readers will not doubt they will. They can't download this the same ASEN number twice. So it is just easy like that. And then, well, maybe you could say that few people get confused, but, but then I would revert back to my advice to myself from a moment ago and say, well, who cares if a few people get confused during one week, if the book is up for the next 20 years.

Jesper (38m 26s):
So,

Autumn (38m 28s):
But it was, I mean, I changed the title on good reads. Again, you don't delete the old book, even on Amazon, you don't delete the old, you literally go in and change the title, except for the paperback. The paperback is assigned the ESPN that you get an Amazon is assigned to that title. So you, that you have to unpublish and then publish a new Virgin and ask Amazon to sync them. And they do it. And it was not a problem, but everything else do, you know, with eBooks and everything else do not delete the old one, you literally can go into Amazon, changed the title, change the name, and then, you know, it upload the new cover and everything's fine.

Autumn (39m 9s):
It sinks up good reads was the exact same way. I was worried on good reads that it wouldn't let me change the title, that it would see it as a whole new book. But no, it let me change the title. So now, if anyone goes in, they will see that it is the same book. It'll tell them they already purchased it or they already downloaded it. Unless of course they got it in somewhere else, like as a free promo. And now they went in and paid for it and they have the same book and then they might be a little annoyed, hopefully not. And it was definitely, yeah, it was worth it. I mean, it was, it was a good thing to do. And it was a definitely a lesson now that I can step other people through this. If they really feel like it's something they have to do.

Jesper (39m 50s):
Yeah. And it used to be so as well, that, that you could not update the title without on publishing it and publishing a new book on a, under a new AC number on Amazon. But, but as you say there, I think that's not the case.

Autumn (40m 4s):
No, it's not. You can change the title as much as you want. As long as it's under the EISA number, the ASI number, it is fine. You can change the title as much as you want and they don't complain and you can upload the book cover or the files, all that. It's just the paper. It's just, if you have an ESPN, if you have an ESPN, then you can not change the title. At that point, you will have to delete the old book or unpublish it and upload a whole new version. So that's, that is one of the drawbacks. Hey, we had a whole podcast episode, if you should be using free ISBNs so knowing that it was free from Amazon, I didn't even blink. I'm like, Oh, well that's a bummer. And I just, you know, recreated a new paperback version.

Autumn (40m 45s):
And then I had asked them to sync the two and it was not a problem.

Jesper (40m 50s):
No, indeed. So I think overall here, I mean the rather obvious lesson is that, well, get the branding right from the beginning

Autumn (41m 2s):
Book cover. That's a good cover image is not that big of a deal. You don't have to change the formats. It's not that hard. The title, especially if you have multiple books out to Hertz a little, get it right. The first time, listen to episode 37, it steps you through it brilliantly.

Jesper (41m 22s):
Yeah. And then you don't have to worry about the stuff if you just do it right. At least until not until some years later where you might want to update the cover design as we talked about, if it gets slightly dated or something, but also remember

Autumn (41m 34s):
That the self-publishing success course actually covers everything you need to know about covers titles and blurps. So all that is explained in last week's episode. So yeah, that's pretty easy. Absolutely. Go check it out, check out our past episodes. And yeah, my best advice is try to get it right the first time, but it's not the end of the world. It is entirely fixable. If you realize your series name is completely wrong or your yearbook title is completely wrong, you can, you can salvage that and maybe double, you know, your downloads or your sales just that easily. Yeah. And don't forget that the self-publishing success course is free.

Autumn (42m 17s):
I will add a link in the show notes from where you can grab this, this free course. So it's available for you. And then you might be able to avoid some of all this rebranding stuff that we've been discussing separately. So we hadn't come out with the course yet. So I hadn't watched it. It's definitely, it will get you straight and be all the help you need. So go check it out. Okay. Next Monday we are approaching the end of the year. So we will look forward and share some thoughts on this podcast for 2021.

Narrator (42m 54s):
If you like what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to support the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn and Jesper on patreon.com/amwritingfantasy for as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going. Stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 102 – Find Self Publishing Success

What do you really need to know to become a successful self published author?

Well, not only do we have the tips for you ranging from mindset to marketing and covers to the cornerstone you won't find success without, but we have a whole course of advice, strategies, and steps ... and we are giving it to you for FREE!

Plus there are a few other announcements in this episode like the release of our long-awaited worldbuilding course. So check out the episode and find the links you need below!

Enroll in the brand new Crafting Incredible Fantasy Worlds worldbuilding course during its exclusive VIP launch from December 7 - 14 while it is at a super special VIP price at https://ultimatefantasywritersguide.com/worldbuilding/.

And don't forget to pick up the newly released Self Publishing Success course for FREE at https://ultimatefantasywritersguide.com/self-publishing-success/!

Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday.  

SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST! Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review.  

Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you’ll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going. 

Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Narrator (2s):
You're listening to The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast in today's Publishing landscape. You can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now onto the show with your hosts. Autumn Bert and Jasper Schmidt.

Jesper (30s):
Hello, I'm Jesper

Autumn (31s):
and I'm Autumn.

Jesper (33s):
This is episode 102 of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. And today we are going to talk about having success in self publishing and how to go about it. So this is something that many have been looking forward to, because it also means that when you are listening to this are brand new and a a hundred percent free self publishing Success course is available to you. People just do it.

Autumn (1m 0s):
We just talked about needing to celebrate, you know, we need to learn to celebrate Maura. So I'm celebrating those. I'm so excited that this course is ready and we can send it off to author's so that they can hopefully learn these things a lot straighter, faster than we ever did in FREE. And it's a fricking awesome. So I hopefully you got to check it out.

Jesper (1m 21s):
Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's, it's been a lot of work and is finally here. So we are going to go through some of that stuff today. And so you can get a feel for what's what's there and what, what it is that we are offering there. But, but before we get that far, how has life been Autumn? Oh, its been busy. Well, it doesn't help that I decided to work. You know, we are building these, of course I'm putting up the finishing touch. It touches on our self publishing course on the website. But I also, as I mentioned, I had joined a nano Ramo for the first time, but of course I joined at seven days late. So that was kind of a bit of a stumbling block.

Autumn (1m 57s):
But I, so we're recording this the week of the U S Thanksgiving. So guests I've got like what, four or five or six days that finish this up. But I guess what my current Writing I word count is a So I think right now, correct me if I'm wrong. But last time when you ask me what it was the 25. So I guess let's say you do it again because it was right at the middle of the month and you get 25 and it was at 20 like three. Okay. So six days left out of seven days left, approximately. So your probably at, let's say 35. Wow. I am so far ahead of that.

Autumn (2m 37s):
I am a 40k, 40,000.

Jesper (2m 41s):
Wow. You almost have it.

Autumn (2m 43s):
Yeah. I absolutely love my stats graph because you know, it shows like this is what you're supposed to be doing and mine starts off flat and then it like goes exponential. Like it hit the go button there, but I will, this week is a little busy, even though I'm going anywhere because of COVID in the us, it is an American Thanksgiving. So my husband and I were, well, it's supposed to rain, but we we're going to go to the top. We weren't going to cook her entire dinner over the campfire because we were just weird like that. But we think it sounds like fun, but we are going to have a day of eating and cooking. Some of my word count will be a little less, but nano tells me if I, as long as I keep writing a thousand words a day, I will hit my 50,000 so I can not wait to succeed.

Autumn (3m 25s):
Yeah,

Jesper (3m 26s):
Yeah. This should be no problems. Then you have almost a week left. So yeah, that should not be a problem. All right.

Autumn (3m 30s):
I have faith that it would, it would be, I think I can do it. So I'm, I'm excited to finish my first nano and get my badge. Yes. Congratulations to you early. Congrats. I know the next Monday is officially when we record, the next episode will be the last day so we can check in and you can see if I actually did it. I think I'm good at sabotaging myself. Occasionally just one. I think I'm going to do, you know, I've got an easy snow trip, but anyway, your, in the middle of moving and everything else, how are things over there? Yeah,

Jesper (4m 6s):
Yeah. At the moment we just keeping it really busy, trying to get the entire house packed up. We, we were making progress, but we're not quite there, but you know, as, as we are recording this episode, there is a little more than a week. Well, actually a week, it is the next Monday that we are going to get the keys to the new apartment. Oh. So it's getting really close now.

Autumn (4m 29s):
It's a yeah.

Jesper (4m 31s):
Well, yeah, it is. But at the same time, it also means that I feel pretty damn busy. We did play it smart. So we have, we have about three weeks on until we have to hand the house over to the new owners. So we do have some overlap, which is quite nice. If it goes completely crazy, then I guess we can manage this a bit. But yeah. But I think apart from that, all of the packing stuff, I've just been trying to put the outline together for a short story that we are going to use as a reader magnet. And I think we are on the, like the third version.

Autumn (5m 5s):
Yeah. Well, you know where we want this one to be special. So, you know, we're, we're working on it.

Jesper (5m 14s):
Yeah. It's, it's been a difficult one. You know what? I'm not going to spoil anything of course, for anybody here, but we aren't going to, or are we aiming to tell a story in a slightly different way than you would normally expect it, but you know, by having a main character who is actually trapped in one place from the beginning of the story to the end of the story, and I quite liked that, but it also poses some challenges and how we are making it interesting and engaging. So yeah. Yeah. But I think I finally figured it out. Yeah.

Autumn (5m 42s):
Yeah. I think So the little snippets who you are sharing with me. I can not wait to read the next versions. So, and of course its just the outline. I should say just the outline that's that's been enough, but eventually pretty soon I think we're going to get to the writing and I can not wait. Yeah. As

Jesper (5m 58s):
Soon as my moving activity's will allow it, then I will start dictating the first draft. Yeah.

Autumn (6m 3s):
Yeah. That'll be excellent.

Narrator (6m 7s):
Oh, a week on the internet with The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast Well

Jesper (6m 13s):
Fact we have not one but two courses to mention. Yeah.

Autumn (6m 18s):
Yeah. That's true. We have been busy bees having to weigh.

Jesper (6m 23s):
Yeah, I think so too. Yes. So apart from the self publish Success course, which we will come back to you shortly, it also happens that they're worldbuilding course, which we have been working for. Like, I don't know, two weeks,

Autumn (6m 36s):
Two years old, I think it has 22 years and it is it's the it's it's all that we have actually had one lucky winner student who is actually gone through the entire course. I think he's absolutely insane to have gone through everything that's in this course already, but he did and I give us feedback. That's kind of exciting. We already had our first student in there. Yeah, that is absolutely.

Jesper (7m 2s):
Okay, great. And we have everything set up, as you can imagine. Since the, our SUPPORT patron SUPPORT already went through it, all of the modules are available. Everything is ready. We did. However, the site that we want it to open the course up as a limited VIP launched only to start with. Yes. So that means that if you are listening to this episode, the day that this episode releases on the 7th of December, you will have one week, if you want in, on the heavily discounted VIP launch price. That's right. 'cause it's only going to be open until the 14th of December. And we mean that only until the 14th of December, then we are going to close it.

Jesper (7m 45s):
So if you wanted, you will need to be quick about it.

Autumn (7m 48s):
Yeah. So it's not even, it's not even that were going to just have it open for seven days. This is like a brand new course in a special price that we it's like doubling his. Once we go through this little additional stage where we're kind of still testing everything and working really closely with the students and getting feedback and tweaking things. So this is if you want this really special, awesome deal, it's only going to happen once. And it's only happening from the day. This is releasing to the 14th of December, 2020, right?

Jesper (8m 22s):
Yep. So we've added on the link in the show notes from where you can read about all the awesome content that is included in this course. So we can go and check that out, see if you are interested. And if you are, I would advise you to step in now because we are probably gonna launch it again in may be something like six, seven, eight months from now. But when we do, it's going to be at a much higher price point then now. So yeah, if you are listening to her, then price yourself, lucky that you know, you're listening to this podcast because it you're going to be able to save quite some money on this because if you want,

Autumn (9m 1s):
And it is definitely I I I did I tell you this? Because I have that little writing gig I'm doing for some of my little ghost fit in to see ghost writing gig with that sounds a little weird. I actually used the script from the worldbuilding course to develop the world and it is just perfect. It is amazing. It is so concise. Gets the job done. It makes it perfect. Developed as a story. So yeah, we did a good job. Can I get a good pet, a sinner head for this one? It is fantastic. So yes. Check it out if you like worldbuilding but you don't want to get lost or you don't know where to start with worldbuilding this is going to help you out, right?

Jesper (9m 44s):
Yeah. And I think it doesn't really matter if you are brand new to worldbuilding and you need to learn something or if you actually a seasoned writer who has built several Worlds that there will be some content in here that that will make you think about stuff you hadn't thought about before, because there is a lot of content. There was a reason why we worked on this for several years.

Autumn (10m 6s):
Yes, yes. And I can vouch for that. How many Worlds have I built buy now? And I still find this course is much more put together. It's so much more organized and it gets, it gets right to the core of what you need to do without getting lost in the details and developing stuff. You don't need to use So yeah. I am, you know, six or seven were a little Worlds under my belt and it was like, this course just changed my writing life. It's fantastic. So I guess on the first student,

Jesper (10m 39s):
Yeah. So Autumn, we might be crazy offering the self-publishing Success costs for free, but then they go,

Autumn (10m 46s):
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I can actually pretty much, I know I've often said from the last decade or two or three that I am definitely crazy. So no one who knows me is going to be surprised on this one. But this course is it is we could, I mean the other places that offer or something like this, its easily over a $500. This is a lot of information. It's not just like, Oh, here's a little tidbits that a lead you on is not a breadcrumb trail. This is the stuff you need to know if you want to have success. So Publishing, and I can't believe we put it together that we're going to give it, just give it away, but we're going to help out our fellow authors in this crazy. And we won't even think about this when we first started planning it, that we'd be in the middle of a pandemic in the world would be in chaos.

Autumn (11m 32s):
But Hey, that was a big city. Even better to get back to our Writing community and our fellow authors and say, Hey, this is what you need to know. Go do it.

Jesper (11m 42s):
Yeah. And I feel as well that it was only fair to be honest, to put it out for free because at the end of the day, the stuff that is in this course is stuff that it, you know, if you spend a lot of time, let's say you read a ton of blog posts, all kinds of different ones you listen to, I don't know what a million different Author podcasts like I do crazy in that way. Yes and you, you write a lot of books and you do your trial and error stuff. I mean that there is nothing in here that you can't figure out. All this stuff that is Here is best practice stuff.

Jesper (12m 25s):
And it is of course in tended to make sure that you don't walk in to the common pitfalls and, and you can see for yourself some time there, as I said up at the top of the episode, but at the end of the day, I felt like Y charts, I didn't quite feel that was fair to chat's money for it. Because honestly, the stuff that is in here is stuff that you can figure out that the problem that you would have then is one. You will need to wait through a ton of information and you need to figure out what of this stuff is actually something that is helpful versus what is just an old tactic that doesn't work anymore. That's one thing. And then the other thing is that you need to figure out how to structure everything so that it make sense.

Jesper (13m 10s):
And basically what we've done here is that we've done a whole of that for you. Right we read it out, all the stuff that you don't worry about that go on with that. Some of the stuff that is in this module, it's only the stuff that we feel like, this is what you need to know, and this is what you need to concern yourself with everything else you can ignore. And we've also Removed all the stuff that is more like a, yeah, this, this is what's, wasn't a tactic that you used to work. For example, we, we have a quite some time or in one of the models, we spent quite some time talking about a Permafree because that's also one of the things that has been very much up in the past, but like it used to work on this.

Jesper (13m 50s):
It's not that it doesn't work anymore, but it it's not as effective any more. So we also touch upon that and so on and so on. So I feel like this is a good thing to, to give people for FREE and of course it's well, we are also showing you can do it for free. Then we're doing it. We are taking our own medicine because we always talk about the importance of building email lists and for it to be able to build an email list, you need some reader magnets, and this is how reader magnet, all right. That's what it is at the end of the day. We are the only thing that you have to pay, quote unquote, is that it does require you to sign up a, with your e-mail to get access to the course.

Jesper (14m 31s):
And that is also not only because we use it as a read the magnet, but it is actually also because there is a lot of information in this course and we are going to drip, feed it to you. So you're not going to get a ton of a video course modules thrown in your face, the students as sign up, because I think it is more common or it's, that's not something that I think that's something that I know, but it it's more common than not that people sign up for courses, especially just like with the Permafree books, if we don't have to pay for it, most people won't go through it. That's true. And even people who pay for courses, don't go through the courses that they pay for. So the chances would be that if we just gave you, okay, here it is, eh, have access to it.

Jesper (15m 14s):
Here's the, here's your access to have fun with it. Chances are you would never go through it. So that's why we decided to drip feed it one session at a time and it's going to run approximately over months actually before you're going through. But then you can go through it slowly. Just one, one, one session every second day at your own pace there. And of course you could just save the emails if you don't have time now, and you can watch them later, that's up to you. But that's how we felt it would be best, but we have 10 modules ready for you. And there's also a bonus module, but I was thinking we could go through the 10 modules or some sort of explain what it is, but yeah. Now I've been talking.

Autumn (15m 55s):
Yeah, that's all right. I mean, you have to just have it and that's what that is, but yeah, that's, that's exactly what we wanted. Yeah. It goes out actually 30 to two days with two days between everything because, and I know that because I just set up all the rules, like we said, I was still building some of the back end stuff because that's part of my role in this and this thing we got going on. But yeah. So lets go through it. I think it will be exciting to let people get an idea of what we have jam-packed in this. And if it is it's free, the cost is your e-mail because we want you to have access to it and we are going to guide you through it so that you're not overwhelmed and that you actually do it is so easy to fall off the wagon and get frustrated.

Autumn (16m 39s):
So these are good reminders that, Hey, this next video is ready. Go ahead and give it a try and we'll make sure that we're there to help you out. And yeah, hopefully we get to know each other a little bit too. Yeah, yeah,

Jesper (16m 50s):
Yeah. And in truth, and this is the same thing that we preach. We've said it multiple times in the past episode, on this podcast as well. You know, if, if your readers and not willing to sign up for you, an email address to get a free story from you then, well, they probably wouldn't be interested in anything else you're going to say anyway. So I think the same thing applies to you or do you know if you're not willing to give you an e-mail address to get access to the course, fine. That's completely up to you, but that is the only requirement there is. And I promise you that it's going to be a ton of good stuff in there, but it's a completely up to you if you want to do it or not. Yes.

Autumn (17m 25s):
Yeah. And we do, once you sign up, you get the first module right away. So you don't have to wait two days to start. Yeah. So

Jesper (17m 33s):
Yeah, but what your one, lets just talk about that first. So as I said, it was 10 modules. So let's do them one by one here in module one. It is really about the, Well the lies that you are telling yourself. And so we are going to dispel some of the myths around publishing and we try to share our reflections on what it takes to be a professional writer. And a, I just thought that when we put this together, that was a good starting point from what your one. Yeah.

Autumn (18m 3s):
Yes. I agree. I I because the title of it even is why 2% of authors succeed in 98% don't so, you know, we talk about the myths of what people think writing is what the mindset is that's going to help you. And what, what is the reality of writing and self publishing? Because I know talking especially self publishing, you mean so many people that are determined to go to the traditional route or are you still think there's a stigma around self publishing and you know, we talk about what is really going on with all of that in today's world. Well, not COVID world, but you know what I mean? The reality is a famous author. It's a, it's a good foundation. You need to know kinda sets the tone for the rest of the course.

Jesper (18m 44s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And module two basically built on module one a because it's a mindset module. Yeah. And then you might ask why, why don't we put in a mindset module? Yeah.

Autumn (18m 59s):
Oh, I see you. That makes total sense to me. But yes, I will ask that. Why would we do a mindset module Yesper? Right.

Jesper (19m 6s):
Well, because it is actively so that nothing, absolutely nothing of the stuff that we teach in this course makes any difference whatsoever. Unless you approach your author career with the right mindset, that's probably the best answer I can do it. Yeah.

Autumn (19m 24s):
Yeah. I, I totally agree. I mean, I think I just saw something today, even about, Oh, something about making it into a best seller. It's like the one Oh one mindset that's different between successful authors and non-successful and if it was a mindset that was the key phrase, it was in believing at it and understanding the ropes, understanding what was required of you and not putting effort where you really don't need it or thinking that it's so impossible, you'll never achieve it. So we break that down and give you two sessions in module two, you know, we looked at what a professional writer is and what you're doing. And we talk about how to be built that into a career.

Autumn (20m 6s):
So whether or not you want a career, but at least the information is there because you know, I know most people that are kind of secretly it gets under your skin and you get a little addicted. I did just on Instagram admit when I listed my nano right. Mo word count that I might be addicted, but please don't send an intervention to me because it's going to interrupt my writing time. So

Jesper (20m 30s):
Is it the one mindset to write it?

Autumn (20m 33s):
Oh, it might be Well I at least rural. All your books are on the Hill. The strategies on the bookstore is that it would work. I couldn't help myself, but

Jesper (20m 44s):
We also introduced the concept of 1000 true fans and in this module and I absolutely love this concept. I came across in quite some years ago, but I really loved it ever since because it makes, you know, if you are thinking about, okay, I need to, I want to build a career and then I need to find a custodian readers out there to read my books. And, but this concept of 1000 true fans, once you start breaking it down, then everything doesn't feel as overwhelming anymore. It feels achievable. That's not to say that this is easy. It's not going to be in the short term a quick fix, a get rich scheme thing because it's not, it takes time to build through a true fans, but it's not about getting it 1000 people onto your email is to us about developing true fans.

Jesper (21m 33s):
That's not an easy, it takes time. Yeah. But still it's a lot more achievable than thinking. I need to get a a hundred thousand people onto my email list. Right. That does not feel achievable. Yeah.

Autumn (21m 43s):
No. And I you introduced me to this a thousand true fans and I know it was just spewed it to my husband, whatever he gets frustrated. Cause he's a crafter and building things with his hand. And so I've passed it on to him and saying you don't need a million people that are selling to you just need to build up these people that are going to be with you through thick and thin. And I think that's the important thing is that again, it teaches you that you can go and join some of these group organized where you're going to all, everyone's going to get 3000 or 5,000 or 10,000 emails out of this thing. Is that really the right method? You know, that's something to consider and you can weigh in or you're trying to build a relationship or are you going to get that?

Autumn (22m 24s):
If you split 5,000 readers between 20 different authors, I have to admit if I was one of those readers and I was suddenly getting 20 emails a day from different authors, it be hitting him and subscribe.

Jesper (22m 35s):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we will dive deep into all of that stuff and module two. Yes. Then model three is where we sort of get your set up, meaning that we share information on building your author platform. We've actually touched upon that in a fairly recent episode on the podcast as well. We did, but we also talk about the reader magnet in module three, what it is and how to leverage it a reader magnet for your benefit. And I just a set in a short while ago here or a moment ago, rather than the courses are really active. So you get to see how that works.

Autumn (23m 16s):
Yes. Nothing like learning by doing or doing by learning. And one of the two.

Jesper (23m 23s):
Yeah, I know. So that's good. Yeah.

Autumn (23m 25s):
Session three, module three is a good, it has two different sessions. So we talk about the Author platform. We explain it in how to leverage it, to help build your Success. But also then the second one dives into the reader magnet. So you can turn on some of those browsers and to hopefully your first few true fans, hopefully.

Jesper (23m 46s):
And th there is a bit about social media in here as well on sort of where to focus in and where not to focus in and stuff like that. So a lot of good stuff in module three, a module four is all about understanding the market in which you operate as an author. So this means that if you're trying to sell books online, you also have to understand how the on-road online retailers actually work. So that, that sounds pretty important. Yeah,

Autumn (24m 16s):
It doesn't, it, it does. I was going to say, this is the one that when I was first published in 2012, I wish I had had this because there was a, well, there was so much, I mean, what Amazon eBooks had been out for a year or two when I first published. So it was still pretty much, no one had any instructions at all ever, but now there's instructions out there that are so confusing, but this is like, this is my go-to now about how it all works and how it affects sales, what you need to look like, what is the deal is selling books online and how does that work? Takes the mystery out of it. And it's very factual and easily understood.

Autumn (24m 56s):
So you get an idea of what is out there on what you're up against and what you need to know before you start doing all this.

Jesper (25m 3s):
And there was also some information about how to drive traffic to your books and also the factors that will affect your sales demote. So that also sounds pretty important.

Autumn (25m 14s):
Yes, absolutely. This is it. Like I said, this was the one module that if I could have had, if I can send this back in time, give it to one of my characters in my face story. I'm writing now who can travel in time. I want him to take this back to me, please.

Jesper (25m 30s):
I tell you. And I think if it, if it was me, I would more take module five back, you know?

Autumn (25m 35s):
Oh yeah. Modern five is fine.

Jesper (25m 38s):
Not that different, but from what you will for, because it is also about understanding the online retailers, but with module five, we actually went beyond what we are talking about in module four. And we dive deep into Amazon and you might have even asked why is that important?

Autumn (25m 59s):
Alright. So why is it important to understand Amazon? Well I simple to do with it. Yeah.

Jesper (26m 7s):
Well, 90% of sale, populists authors, all kidding aside Here but 90% of all authors, they make them a majority of the income from Amazon when it comes to book sales, most of it comes from Amazon. So we felt that it was important to cover this particular site in much more detail. So we give you information on the Amazon, a nine algorithm and how that worked. It actually is not one algorithm. It's like thousands of them that works together. But when we talk about that and how that algorithm works, we talk about keywords. We'll talk about categories, how to an Amazon bestseller and all of that. Good.

Autumn (26m 46s):
Yeah. And even if you should go exclusive with Amazon, there are some pluses and there are some medicines minuses. So we look into those two, but yeah, that's true. This is this one when I was, especially when I was building it, I thought of this one as sort of like the guts of the course. Not because it's a five out of 10, but just because of the information that's in, it, it, it just felt to me like, this is, this is the meat of the entire course. And when you get here, you're like, Oh, okay, I'm paying attention to this. Hopefully

Jesper (27m 19s):
It still requires people to actually go through the modules, but a Yes module six. That's one of your favorite so far.

Autumn (27m 29s):
That is, I love it because it's a book covers. I love book covers there. They make me happy. So this is all the advice you need on where to get book covers. What makes a good book cover. And the most important thing is how you can tell whether or not it's a good book cover or not, or you're being ripped off. So I think that is just, I don't know, to me, to me that it doesn't have to, it's not because I'm a graphic artist are that I've wanted it to be an artist since like my first earliest memory I think is of drawling. So it has nothing to do with those things. But as an author of a book cover is your number one marketing image.

Autumn (28m 9s):
This is going to represent your book your months and months of work to readers in like six seconds, two seconds. So as soon as they see it and it represents all of that work and love, and it should be the most amazing, powerful and marketing savvy image that you can get. So yeah, module six is, is definitely one of my favorites.

Jesper (28m 34s):
Yeah. Yeah. And then there was actually as well as a very, very nice short cut in module six for how you can almost add a glance, get to see the commonalities between covers in your Shaundra so that there is some nice, a quick cheat tricks in there that makes it just a ton more easy than going through an Amazon top a hundred list than clicking all the different book. So yeah, there's some nice stuff. And what you were six that you'll find very useful. Yeah,

Autumn (29m 7s):
Definitely. I highly recommend that one.

Jesper (29m 11s):
Yeah. So if we say that module six on book covers is probably the number one success factor when it comes to selling a book, it's probably its cover. Then module seven is the second most important success factor because here we discussed the book description. Yeah.

Autumn (29m 28s):
Yeah. So this is so important to get Right I I've even recently learned another trick en book descriptions. I, I think this is one thing that as the market changes, as you grow as an author, you, you still learn more about this, but this module really breaks down and only, you know, the important things that are out there that you can learn, but some of our own techniques and tactics, I mean, you've only written an entire book on how to write a fantasy book description. So you put a lot of that into this much. Like I know you did. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Jesper (30m 7s):
Yeah. It's a, it's a good module. And I think it's, it's actually much harder to write a good book description. And then you think, well, everybody listening to this who have tried we'll know that is, that is true. I mean, one thing is writing a a hundred thousand word story where all of a sudden, when you have to put everything down into 200 words and it has to be really engaging well, then it becomes really difficult.

Autumn (30m 30s):
So even just your tagline can be agonizing for a days. As I know, because I'm trying to write three books descriptions in the next week or two. And I had been working on them for a week or two, and that's a hell of a nice thing. So this leaves breaks it down and it gives you tips and it helps you out so that, you know, like I do, when you haven't quite gotten to the level, you'd need your book description to be at, because it's got to be up there and it's got to be powerful and it's not easy to get to where you need to be. No I indeed. But yeah.

Jesper (31m 5s):
Yeah. I'm thinking module eight. Autumn I'm thinking that's probably not one of your favorite modules. Yeah.

Autumn (31m 12s):
I love spreadsheets or are you kidding? I don't think you do. You know, it's not that well, it's so important though. So advertising, but yeah, this is my wish list that as soon as I have enough spare money and I'm hiring a virtual assistant, this is what I'm hiring them for. Of course I have you. But yeah, even you shouldn't have to be doing a spreadsheets all day every day. So module eight is on advertising, which is so important.

Jesper (31m 43s):
Yeah. Well basically at the end of the day, we cannot have a course on self publishing without talking about advertising. That's just not possible.

Autumn (31m 53s):
No, not at all anymore. I mean, I do remember I still, I need to stop selling the, like the old, old widow in the room and say, Oh, I have ever done to her back in 2012 when I was young, when I was joking. And I knew that he published author, Oh my God, it was so easy to sell books on Amazon, your run, like a, KTP like five free days. And you get 10,000 downloads. I mean, it was like you could sneeze and a cell, a book because there was like less than a million on Amazon back then. It was fantastic. Now you need to advertise. Yeah. You just need to advertise whether it's paid ads or doing something through some of the major advertisers that sent it out to their reading list, you needed to run ads.

Autumn (32m 36s):
And so you need module eight because if you don't know where to start advertising, I won't say, I don't know where to start. I just know spreadsheets and it will help you get yourself organized and your head on straight in, you will not waste tons of money and tons of time, because time is your writing time. It's your fun time. It's your family time. You don't want to waste your time. And it it's, it's just a

Jesper (33m 3s):
Pay to play market nowadays. And that, that

Autumn (33m 6s):
Is just whether we like it or not. That's what it is.

Jesper (33m 9s):
Yeah. So obviously, Nope, no, maybe a few of us, or maybe none of it is maybe it's not true to say none of us, but right now,

Autumn (33m 18s):
Fewer of us has endless funds 2.2 ads. Right? So now what do we need? Some sort of a cost-effective

Jesper (33m 24s):
It's a good way of going about things and that's what we try to share with you.

Autumn (33m 28s):
Yes. It's a very good module. So I would say the module nine is one of the funnest ones in the entire course, right. Because who doesn't love launching a new book. So we actually tackled that as well in the self publishing course, because it's a lot more than just uploading your files to Amazon. I wish it was not easy, but it's not. Oh, when I was young that each year, really? I don't remember that. Was it that what you're saying?

Jesper (33m 60s):
So in 2012, if you just upload a book and then it sells, right. Do you don't want to worry about that? Yeah.

Autumn (34m 4s):
Oh, it did it, you know, you didn't have to worry about lunch. This is probably why I still sometimes go, Oh right. I am supposed to be putting time into this. I still eat struggle. I saw some places to do like a seven month, a month launch sequence. And we have consolidated. Ours is down a little bit less than that, but there are still times when I get, you know, I start booking out my calendar and my schedule and see when the next book comes out going, Oh shoot, I should've started this two weeks ago or so I would probably need to watch module nine. Again, myself.

Jesper (34m 36s):
It is. But at the end of the good thing is with, with this cost that it's going to be there forever. So once you have signed up for at least, at least as long as an internet exists. So if the internet internet is gone, then I can promise you you're access to the course of any more. But as long as there is an intimate, then you can always come back to these modules and what's them later on. If you need to revisit something, it it's just going to be there forever.

Autumn (34m 58s):
Yes. So it will be painful part is the fact that you have to wait two days between each session, the first time. But once you get through them all, there will always be there and we won't make you wait. EVERY I again, indeed. Yes. So yeah,

Jesper (35m 14s):
Once you've gone through much aligned and you have a right. Yeah.

Autumn (35m 18s):
Final module, 10 that's right. And this one, I like the title of it. The cornerstone you cannot succeed without, so yeah. What do you want to elaborate on this special, last module in our group? Yeah.

Jesper (35m 33s):
Yeah. I can. And I always feel like a, having like a, a two second pause here, allowing the listener too. Guess what it is, because if you have listened to this podcast for a longer while I think that you can guess, what is it, what can it be? What could be the cornerstone of your author career that you cannot live without? What could it be?

Autumn (35m 54s):
I can do the jeopardy dude, because I think I should have had something planned. I mean,

4 (36m 0s):
Do you guessed it? Yes. The email list. Yeah.

Autumn (36m 4s):
Yeah. Congratulations yes. This is the important one where, you know, just to get the course, you'd join our email list. This is what it takes.

Jesper (36m 16s):
Yeah. And module 10, we'll go over the basics of a setting up e-mail list. And what do you need to be mindful about? And once you're done with that, you're basically good to go. But in addition, if you want a lot more help on email list building and know all the details of it, then we have to actively S will build an entire additional cost that covers everything you need to know about running an email list, how to set it up, what to do, how often to send emails, what to write about what you should be thinking about for your shop, that subject lines, AB testing, everything is in there that will be explained on the back.

Jesper (36m 58s):
End of module two, if you want to. But that one is one that you have, you we'll have to pay for that if you want that.

Autumn (37m 5s):
Yeah. But at the top of this record, this podcast, this episode, you said there was two courses we were talking about. So this was like a third, this, this number three. Yes, we are crazy.

Jesper (37m 18s):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And you wonder why we've said so many times that we are a bit busy. Yeah,

Autumn (37m 23s):
Yeah, yeah. Oh my goodness. And that's all happening in November, December in 2020. When's the asteroid coming. I mean really? Oh Well but yeah. So we go into, we talk about a special extra module, but we also link to a very amazing chorus called master mailing lists. And so that really, if you need help developing your mailing list, if you don't know where to start, if your stumbling, if your pause or having trouble with interaction's and turning those people who were downloading downloading, you're a reader magnet into true fans. If that's where really where your struggling, you want to take a look at this course, this is going to help you out, get everything organized, to give you some emails, to even start with and get you going to be building your fans and, you know, building your career.

Jesper (38m 14s):
Yeah. And it's going to have swipe, swipe copy as well. So you can basically take our stuff and copy and pasted all most and make it a tween, get a bit too, make it your own But. But it's going to have everything you need in here. So a that, that, but yeah, there is no reason to go on and on about that. You'll you will see that once you get to module seven and it's going to be explained there, so you should just enjoy the other nine modules. And then what else? Module tendency, if it's something for you or not afterwards.

Autumn (38m 42s):
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think that's it, that's the 10 modules of the self publishing Success course that we're offering For did we mention FREE a Yeah even though it costs an e-mail list

Jesper (38m 57s):
Or e-mail address and I should just say

Autumn (38m 59s):
Yes. And if you want to actually, you know, get the link to the course, you have to provide a real email. You can say you can't do a fake one. Its kind of important to make sure that you actually get to the right website after your sign up. Yeah.

Jesper (39m 12s):
Yeah. Well otherwise the links to the individual modules will be sent to a fake one. So yeah. It's going to hurt yourself.

Autumn (39m 20s):
And that will be silly. Yeah.

Jesper (39m 22s):
But I think whether you are a beginner or you, if you are an author with a handful of books or a series, a puppet already, but do you find yourself struggling or you will get the advice that you need to get your own author career on the right track and, and keep it growing. It is not to say that this course in any way is a shortcut is not a short-term. I am going to figure it all out now and then everything will be wonderful. There is work involved in these modules and you need to do the work. And the only one who can do the work is you. If you don't do it, you won't see any results and it's not going to happen tomorrow, either. It is. It's a long term.

Jesper (40m 4s):
Let's say it's a long term activities that you need to take care of. It will pay off in the long run, but not tomorrow. And, and you need to understand that.

Autumn (40m 13s):
Yes, absolutely. And I think to me, even, you know, looking at this chorus as a published author, with 20 bucks out of our own, there's just so much with it. You have life and two things going on in your you're constantly juggling so many things. Whether you are a full time author or your working to become one and you start a job, its easy to not be up to speed on something or to let something fall by the wayside. So in this course, in this platform is a good layout to remind you of all of the things. If you feel like you've let something go on advertising, I'm me and or any other aspect that you need to work on, you can just go back and look at the module and look at it and say, all right, this is where I needed to get, you know, keep yourself reinvigorated and get it going and keep yourself focused.

Autumn (40m 60s):
And that's, to me, that's almost, that's a secondary benefit. Once you go through all at once, you were probably going to come back to it and remind yourself like annually going all right. That's where I need to work on this year. That's my goal.

Jesper (41m 13s):
Yeah. So the sign up link is in the show notes. So you can go ahead and sign up right now and get started right now. So the cost is available to them.

Autumn (41m 24s):
Yes. We got to die and I'm going to go, I'm going to jump ahead to the future where it's done and I don't have any more building to do now. It's all it's so close. Just a few more tweaks and we'll be set. I

Jesper (41m 34s):
Know we'll make it absolutely next Monday. It is all about renaming and rebranding it a series of what do we need to be mindful about and what can you expect in terms of results? So see you there. Yes

Narrator (41m 50s):
Like what you just heard. There's a few things you can do to SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST please tell a fellow Author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn in Jasper on patrion.com/am Writing Fantasy for as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast going to stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 101 – Putting together a Fantasy World Bible

Worldbuilding is an integral part of writing fantasy. It helps you inform your story and setting, while simultaneously ensuring reader immersion. 

More often than not, the world the author has created becomes a character in itself.

There are lots of things to keep track of though. A great solution can be to create a ‘world bible’.

This can be a ring binder (although - from personal experience - not recommended) or a folder on your computer where you store all the necessary information. 

However, nowadays, there are also several online tools which can be incredibly helpful.

Dave Robinson, the President of Archivos, joins the Am Writing Fantasy podcast for a chat about the wealth of tools available for fantasy authors.

Archivos can be found here: https://www.archivos.digital/ 

Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday. 

SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST!

Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. 

Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you’ll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going. 

Read the full transcript below.

(Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Narrator (2s):
You're listening to The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast in today's publishing landscape. You can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now onto the show with your hosts. Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt.

Jesper (30s):
Hello, I am Jesper and this is episode 101 of The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast. Imagine that we passed 100 episodes. I think that's absolutely amazing. And perhaps Autumn is off celebrating today or something, I don't know, but at least she is not here, but I have a very competent back-up in place. So today I'm joined by Dave and we are going to discuss how to go about note-taking and also how to keep track of your story and your world. So welcome to The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast, Dave

Dave (1m 4s):
Thank you. Jesper I appreciate it. And congratulations on reaching a, a, a 181. I I'm, I'm actually really deeply honored to be your a hundred and first Episode guest, that's outstanding that that's an achievement. Congratulations.

Jesper (1m 19s):
Right. And imagine that we have actually succeeded in releasing podcast episodes, every Monday for 101 Mondays in a row.

Dave (1m 27s):
Yeah. I mean, really that's tempting fate. When you, when you think about the reputation that Mondays have, you have literally defied reality with this podcast, you ask for it. Well done.

Jesper (1m 41s):
Okay. Well maybe it's just started us out there, or maybe you can just tell us a bit about yourself.

Dave (1m 45s):
Sure, absolutely. I'm a, I got the, the, the, the mosaic, because it is Dave, Robinson, it's a broad and vast a thing. I currently, I am a, I'm a voice actor. I have a website that I just launched to, to initiate my professional voice acting career. And I've done, I've done some audio fiction, narrations and so on, but more specifically, and certainly more germane to, to this podcast. I ran a podcast for several years called the Roundtable podcast later, the Archivos podcast network, where we would brainstorm story ideas. A we did invite a veteran authors on an interview with them about their craft, and then bring another writer on to pitch a story idea and we'd brainstorm.

Dave (2m 32s):
And it was marvelous. And that's a, that exposed me to a, a, a broad spectrum of a creative process. As long as you, no doubt, I have discovered in your own interviews, everybody does things a little differently, but there's at, at a certain level, there's a sense there are certain commonalities between our processes, even, even a discovery writer, who's whose writing off the cuff there's, there seems to be some level of documentation or a record keeping or journaling, something that allows the writer to perceive the story that they're writing in some way, shape or form.

Dave (3m 18s):
And I looked around at the technologies and the websites that are out there. And I realized there was no tool that was really geared towards documenting a story. The way we think about stories. I mean, you've got Wiki's, you've got Microsoft word And and so on and so forth, but these are like walls of text. And we don't think about stories that way. When we were writing them, there are these ideas that are kind of globbed together and interconnected and woven together. So I hired some developers and we created Archivos arc H I V O S, which is a tool that allows writers to document the story elements of their stories, and then connect them via the relationships that link them into the larger fabric of the story they're telling.

Dave (4m 12s):
So you can actually see your story the way you think about your story. So, so that's, that's been a, my, my primary focus over, over the last several years, I was on a hiatus for a while with some, with some family health issues, but were gearing up the development cycle. Again for Archivos uhh, and I'm looking forward to exploring more ways of how writers document there stories and that, and how those documents can actually foster additional storytelling.

Jesper (4m 49s):
Yeah. And I have to tell you, Dave, in your, on your website, in the example stuff you have on, on the front page, you've got to be there because for some reason you put a lot of the rings there. And then I was, I was like, okay, this is good from the beginning. Yeah.

Dave (5m 4s):
Ah, I know in my demographic, I know, I, I mean, I'm with you. I am, I am, I am a, I'm a deep sigh FANTASY nerd I've I know my community, my people, my tribe within the, the social network is also very deeply nerdy and Fantasy and science fiction role-playing games and so on. And so naturally when I step into this industry, there's going to be a strong Fantasy flavor. And a lot of the rings is a perfect demonstration of how Archivos can, can help unravel and, and eliminate a story structure.

Jesper (5m 40s):
Yeah. Because a lot of the rings, or is it also a good example from the point of view that it is fairly complex? You know, you have a lot of characters, a lot of places, a lot of plot points really going on and, and so documenting it, it is, but maybe I want to, maybe it just starts taking a step back 'cause once we were talking about documenting the word Worldbuilding Bible of comfort, if you will. So it's on the internet. Yeah. And I think maybe we should say, well, Worldbuilding, Bible in its essence. It's just a way you could say a document. You could have a software for it, whatever, but it's a way where you basically keep track of the information. You need to tell your stories and your setting.

Jesper (6m 21s):
But I think maybe a good place to start would be to discuss a bit, do you need a Worldbuilding Bible and then we can get into the tools of documenting afterwards, but do you need, it is an important one. What do you think about that?

Dave (6m 35s):
I well, as, as we both observed, everybody does this differently. Do you need it? Is it essential? No, I don't think so. And, and that, that might seem counterintuitive considering that created a world Bible tool, but you honestly don't, I know several writers who have told their story and, and narrow their focus of the world to exclusively the perspective of the characters and the events of that story. And that absolutely works. And that creates a very specific type of narrative. That's that's a very intimate, very, very focused on the characters, which is always a good thing.

Dave (7m 18s):
However, and especially as you observe, when you're getting into things like Lord of the rings or Epic Fantasy when, when history a influences current events as it is so very often does not just in a fantasy, but in, in real life, a, when you have political ambitions that are involving large groups of people or organizations, inevitably, I think those narratives become very complicated. And in order to serve your reader in terms of presenting a consistent and nuanced narrative within that complexity, I really think a world Bible as a central.

Dave (8m 4s):
Yeah.

Jesper (8m 5s):
Yeah. I think I view it as a bit of where do you want to put it in your time? Right. Because if you, as soon as, I mean, if you're just writing one novel or, or, or let's say two or three novel at the most in that setting, you can probably keep track of most things without too much trouble without having to build a full Worldbuilding Bible and, and whatnot. But sure. If we, if we are talking about several series in the same world or a massive tome, like a lot of the rings with very complex or something like that, I think I would look at it in a way of, as I said, where do you want to put it in your time? Do you want to document it upfront? So you can easily find things as you go about your plotting or your writing or whatever, or do you want to spend a time in your editing afterwards and finding out all the details that you've forgotten and going through P a, the pastor three books to find, what was this character called, or what was that place called and what was the culture of those people that I described the two books ago and what not?

Jesper (9m 6s):
Right. So I think that's a way to do it as well, but I think I look at it very much at the Worldbuilding Bible as an effectiveness tools, you know, is it just makes you more effective 'cause you can just quickly look things up and say, okay, it's this and go on and move on. Right.

Dave (9m 21s):
Most definitely. Most definitely. And, and in your, in your unique case with your team, Writing with Autumn the wonderful thing about a Worldbuilding Bible is that it creates a vocabulary that you both are using. So continuity and consistency and collaboration, a Worldbuilding Bible suddenly is a tool where you don't have to do to sit down with somebody for four hours and give them your full scope and vision of your world. You can hand them a bow, a document, or, or, or an archive of setting or whatever, and say, here you go. These are the, the tent poles of this narrative that we're working with.

Dave (10m 2s):
So from a, from a collaboration standpoint, it's incredibly valuable as well.

Jesper (10m 8s):
Yeah. And also For for readers. I mean, I think most of us Fantasy writers, well, probably all of us when we read Fantasy as well. And I think one of the things we have very much in common is that we all loved the world building stuff. So if I can get, let's say a link to maybe be an activist, a setting page of a Lord of the rings or a dragon Lance or whatever other settings I might be in love with it. And I could start diving into all those Worldbuilding details that the authors have put in there that a lot of it, of course it won't even be in the books, but there's a lot of background stuff there. I think that's something that will appeal it a lot to read as well.

Dave (10m 47s):
Absolutely, absolutely. Because we, we've got, we've come in to an age where reading the end of a book while that may be the end of your specific engagement with them, the story itself, we actually, I think I've come to expect that there should be a little bit more out there. There should be some, some background information, some, some, maybe some short stories or flash fiction that may be derived in this story setting and writers today have those tools at their disposal with a few clicks of a mouse to have a site or, or some sort of supplemental information that just enriches the experience of that story for the readers.

Dave (11m 36s):
And it just, it's good marketing to have that collateral material available. And it's also good marketing from a preset up stand point. If you can put up a, here are the main characters, not spoil horrific, but you know, let people have a taste of this character's or, or on a map of your world. Oh, God maps don't give a fuck.

Jesper (11m 59s):
No, no.

Dave (12m 1s):
And as a nurse, if there was a map on the front space of a, of a book up there, man, so you give me an intriguing map with some cool place names that ask questions that raise questions in my mind, I'm hooked and what a great way to entice readers to come into your world.

Jesper (12m 20s):
Yeah. I wrote a whole, a guide book on how to do FANTASY map. So that's a particular love of mine too.

Dave (12m 26s):
Well, it's astonishing. There's like I can list three utilities off the top of my head that are now out there for creating really beautiful FANTASY maps. Yeah. So, and we were talking earlier, before we started recording about the advent of technology and the wonders that it's unlocked for storytellers. And I think that just, that just keeps going. That just keeps continuing.

Jesper (12m 50s):
Yeah. So maybe we, maybe we take a look at what are some of the possible ways if we assume now that OK, Worldbuilding, Bible, it's a good thing to have. Yeah. So what are some of the possibilities on how to document it? And I think we can end up with the online version and a afterwards. So after mentioning a few other alternatives, because Archivos is an online version that we can end up there and talk a bit more about that. But I want to say before I started, when I did my first trilogy, I tried with physical binders and I have no idea why I got that idea into my head on what I missed.

Dave (13m 28s):
Yeah. I would, I would imagine the organ is the organization really becomes the challenge at that point. And, and so when your sitting down to World build, and again, you know, that there is no one way to do it, but think about what your objectives are in creating this world. Bible and I think continuity is probably one of the biggest reasons to do it. So you have a reference to the places, the events, that character is, whatever it is that you want to be able to access very quickly. So there needs to be some sort of organizational structure that allows you to identify, you know, if you are going to do binders, then you need, you need some folders in there for characters.

Dave (14m 17s):
And maybe even breaking that down further depends on how, how detailed and granular you want to get. But you can have your antagonist, your protagonist, your SUPPORT characters, your romantic interests, but being able to quickly access that information so that you don't break your flow. When your writing, you know, when you were, when the words are flowing, it's like, you have to get it. I don't stop me. Do not interrupt me. I am in the zone. A and, and when that's, and you get to that point, where, what is that Tavern keeper's name from That Tavern, just put in TK or some code for yourself in the documents.

Dave (15m 2s):
So you can come back to it later. But once, once the, the steam has had blown off and you're, you are sitting back basking in the thousands of words you just wrote, then you can go back, search those things, and you want your Bible to be able to give you the answer is you need without a lot of digging, I think. Yeah,

Jesper (15m 21s):
I agree. And the other issue with the, with the physical binders is that once you think of more, you need to develop something more, all of a sudden magically that a particular pizza in the bite is already full and you can get more room. I don't know why it always happens is that one piece that is old when you start to write.

Dave (15m 38s):
Right. Exactly. Well, and, and actually that raises a good point. I mean, there's a way some people will get by with just no cards and a, I think I've seen Kameron Hurley's a, a note card board is, is Epic, but it is just note cards. And sometimes that's all you need. Sometimes all you need is a reference. And in this case, when a Scrivener, ah, is wonderful as a tool for creating those note cards, we can just put a couple of notes too, to remind you of the, the tone or flavor that this character evokes, or a key moment that you want to have in this event that foreshadows some grand reveal in chapter 20 or whatever.

Dave (16m 23s):
So, I mean, it can be just a matter of having a board with note cards that are color coded, or maybe you got stickers or whatever. Everybody I think creates their own shorthand because everybody's brain is wired differently, but you need to develop, I think that vocabulary with your brain so that the symbols or the colors, or the icons that you use for For recognition, speak to you and, and not necessarily try and adapt your brain to somebody else's a structured system. You create your own. Yeah.

Jesper (17m 3s):
The system is the key word to it. I think because of course, I mean, I want to say as well as the Scrivener was wonderful, because if you are writing a script and already you are in the same data depository, if you could call it that, right. I mean, you can look up, what do you need quite easily? Whereas if it's, if it's stuck inside a spreadsheet or word document, if we just move away from the physical binders here, but that also becomes a very messy, as soon as you have a larger World with a lot of details in it, the searching in a word document is a nightmare, just scrolling back and forth and all of that stuff. So well, so they have Scrivener. So yeah.

Dave (17m 38s):
Yeah, I think so too. I think so, too. And, and the other thing Jesper that I find so fascinating about the Worldbuilding process, because I'm like, I'm a, Worldbuilding junky. I'm, I'm actually, I, I need World builders anonymous. I need the other direction. Cause I will be, you know, I'll be drafting a, a, a story of some kind. It might be a, a, a narrative for a role-playing game or whatever. I'm a big advocate of history informing, present day. And, and I think the, the revelation of history and the assumed truth of the past and the true truth, truth, truth, truth, that's good for the truth of the past, the actual facts in the past.

Dave (18m 22s):
I think that's an intriguing, it's always an intriguing a, a narrative twists. So I end up looking at the, the current Touraine of the story that I want to tell. Then I start digging into the background in the history that lead up to the current circumstances, whatever that might be. And inevitably that history is so cool then I think, Oh no, wait, my actual stories back here, I'm going to go back a hundred years and tell this story. And, and, you know, it's an endless cycle, just an endless cycle. But I think the point is that by investing in some of your story's cycles, some of your bandwidth as a writer in understanding the history of your world, I think, and I have found this certainly that it generates a first of all, a board story ideas, lots of intriguing things to pursue, but it also allows you to give your current story set in the current time.

Dave (19m 25s):
Those subtle anchors into a past that I think puts, makes a world seem more authentic, puts it in a continuum of a long history that I think gives it a sort of reverence or, or certainly, like I said, a, a certain authenticity. So I always enjoy immersing myself in that in some way. And I think, I think it makes stories better.

Jesper (19m 54s):
Oh, absolutely. I mean, the fact that you have developed the Worldbuilding details also allows you to, you know, you might drop a certain name, have a guilt or a group of something from, from the other country and neighboring country or something like that, but you would never have been able to do that without the Worldbuilding. And a lot of the times you don't even share the details about what that is, but to the reader, it just seems like, okay, this is a full world just to be right behind the horizon here. If I could just look at it, but I know it's there and it makes it a lot more immersive. Exactly, exactly. I think that's wonderful. And that, but maybe nowadays, at least we were talking about technology or a moment ago, and now a days we have a lot of online possibilities to document our World in a Worldbuilding Bible in an online fashion many, many years ago.

Jesper (20m 44s):
I used obsidian portal for a bit. And I think Archivos is probably a very similar, in many ways. But apart from documenting it online, I think one of the real benefits of something like Archivos, it's the links between things 'cause, you don't have to scroll through a million documents if you can. I think click your way through, right. It is from character's two places and to stop the hooks. And so, yeah,

Dave (21m 8s):
Exactly. Yeah. And then, and that's very much the experience that we wanted a your, your, you, you create a character. I mean, you start by creating a single story element and it can be a character or an organization, a place in an event, whatever. And that, that's how it always starts with one thing. And then this other thing, they did this event. Okay. So now we have an event and then you connect that that event took place at a location. Well, I need to, I need a story element for that. And now you've got this continuity between this character, this event in this location, and then other characters participated in them in that event.

Dave (21m 48s):
Other events happened to that location and you get this rich sense of context of, of, of history and perspective on the key elements of your story that I think as a writer gives you a much clearer grip on how those elements impact your story.

Jesper (22m 14s):
Yeah. And then probably also the other thing I think from a creative point of view is that once you start connecting those dots, that sometimes where you get a sperm of inspiration or something else, Oh, by the way, if I could not be something starts, then that makes a whole new level of stuff that could happen. Right?

Dave (22m 32s):
Exactly. Or, wow, this guy, this, these two characters were at the same location at the same time. And I never mentioned that in this story from a continuity standpoint, that would be something you'd want to put in there. And the fact that they do engage, how does that affect your narrative? How does that change the stories? Is it cool? Excellent. Keep going and find more. Yeah,

Jesper (22m 56s):
Indeed. And then, and so it is almost, I mean, one thing is documenting your World But, but it's also like a brainstorming tool. Almost

Dave (23m 4s):
It very much is it very much is. And, and like I said, it's, it's an opportunity to see those connections that, that network of association within the story elements of your, your story's of your knowledge. And this is the thing that it just excites me the most about this is that, you know, history is just a story that actually happened. So you can take actual historical eras epox and put them into Archivos and use that as a reference for, you know, if you were doing an alternate history or if you're doing, you know, an urban fantasy and it set in a specific time, and you want to incorporate actual historical events, you can load those in as well and have that service.

Dave (23m 49s):
Oh, crap. This is when a Kennedy is shot or, you know, this is when this thing happened or whatever. And now suddenly you're anchoring your narratives within the actual World history. And you can have a sense of, of confidence that you are doing so accurately.

Jesper (24m 9s):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But so you mentioned There of course you can document your characters, your places, and you know, those story elements, their, but is there, are there things that, that is Archivos was, can do maybe that is a bit more, should we call it a nice or good compared to what you could say? Yeah, yeah, indeed.

Dave (24m 30s):
We have, we basically have three views within the application. We've got the story web, which just shows you the connection of everything. Characters, events, organizations, places, all of that. We also have the living map, which allows storytellers to upload a map of a country, upload the map of the city of Boulder, a map of a building a and then tag elements on that map. So you can see where this event happened or this city is in this country. And then allowing you to drill down from, from a country view down to a city view down to a neighborhood viewer, what have you.

Dave (25m 9s):
So you've got this, this massive sense of geographical continuity a for your narrative. And then you've got the timeline, which we were talking about earlier, as essential to making sure that the sequence of things unfolds a nice, so you get to see the overlap because events can take place over several days, a battle or something, and you'll be able to see, you know, where the various events of your story are overlapping. Are you putting a character in two places at the same time, that would be bad. A Archivos to let you see that. So lots of visualization tools were actually in the process of expanding the app in a couple of ways.

Dave (25m 55s):
One of them allowing people to create their own custom story elements types. We, we took this big 40,000 foot view, and we just want like characters organizations, places, a, a very broad categories of story out on the type. And we've gotten a lot of feedback from people saying, yes, but I want a creatures story element type. I want a story element type just for the Monster's in my world, right or wrong. Or if you're doing a, a, you know, Naval battle or a scifi ship than I want chips as a story on that time. So we're, we're currently developing a, the way to allow are storytellers to create your own story element types that customize it to their narrative, that they're telling custom relationships.

Dave (26m 43s):
Also, there were those connections, its not just a line between the two characters, a we allow you to define that line. So what a familial professional personal. But again, we took this very high level of view because trying to figure out what anybody and everybody wants is a nightmare. Cause everybody does stuff different. There would be this massively long list of all the different relationships types. So we are going to lie to create your own relationships too. So you can customize that list too, to tailor it towards your a narrative, the types of stories you're telling M and then the third thing we're doing is we're introducing a very intriguing, a tagging function where you can tag events or characters are whatever.

Dave (27m 30s):
For example, a chapter one, I want to tag this event in chapter one, and then you can do a filter to show me just the story elements in chapter one or a book one or whatever. You can have multiple tags and then filter and filter displays by those tag element's, which I think has really going to help a storyteller's be able to organize and group their story elements by whatever criteria they want to. But specifically, you know, what, what happened in chapter one? Okay, here's the chapter one story elements here, the events and the characters, yada, yada, I think that's going to help a lot in terms of being able to refine your vision of your story because as you, as you observed things like Lord of the rings get big quick, and I have found that to be true in Archivos as well as I'm writing, it's like, Ooh, and I need to put it in this and this and this and this network becomes, can become cumbersome.

Dave (28m 32s):
We've got a game of Thrones in there and when it first load's up, it's like, boom, boom, all these elements too. So being able to filter that is probably a good thing.

Jesper (28m 46s):
Yeah. And I noticed as well as that, I think you allow for quite a lot of pictures and stuff like that. So you can make it look nice as well. Isn't that right?

Dave (28m 55s):
Oh my goodness. Yes, we will definitely pictures. Ah, we, we talked earlier about how you, you, the iconography that you use or the symbols or the colors, what have you, we want it to make sure that you could upload images for the little avatar that appears, and also a big image in there, but then we added a gallery options. So if you've got a bunch of photo references for a place, for example, you can just upload all 20 or 30, however many you want they're right there at your fingertips. You can upload PDF's. So if you've got documents, have some kind or a text files, a you can add a link to audio or video files.

Dave (29m 37s):
So if there is a reference of some kind that exists in a different media format, you can link that to the profile for each story element. Yet we wanted to make sure that the storytellers could, whatever references they felt would inspire them in their storytelling, that they would be easily accessible within the Archivos framework. Definitely.

Jesper (30m 1s):
Yeah. Yeah. And of course that also allows it to be much more interesting for her. Like we talked about before for sharing a reader's and stuff like that, because we want to start looking nice. Then it becomes more than just this sort of online Vicky, like Wikipedia, where it just click around for different text elements, but all of a sudden it starts, it starts looking like a lot more than that.

Dave (30m 19s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, I've even advocated, I started doing this with some of the escape artists Podcast podcasts are just a story as well. And you could actually put, you know, I I've been working on getting the Archivos podcast network loaded into Archivos won a novel idea, a and then he'd be able to link the episodes directly in the, in the, in the story elements of that narrative. So yeah, pretty much so, very much So. And, and, and again, those, those, those opportunities to engage with your readers, as much as you have found that every writer has found, there's a lot of material that ends up on the cutting room floor.

Dave (31m 8s):
There are scenes that get axed because they don't necessarily drive the narrative forward. There's a lot of deleted scenes in, in story. Writing, Archivos give you an opportunity to put those deleted scenes up. You can actually include them as that, that collateral material about a, a book or a story or a character, or what have you. So a lot of that story-telling that we as storytellers do that, the readers, our audiences don't necessarily always hear. Now you have a place that you could share that in the context of this as a deleted scene and it didn't make it. But if you want to read more about this event or this character, this is available to you.

Dave (31m 53s):
So it gives you that as well.

Jesper (31m 55s):
Hmm. And on the flip side of that, or you are also able to hide stuff that a for example, if readers get to the link, they can't see this in this pub. If you wanna keep it up.

Dave (32m 4s):
Yes. Most definitely there is a, All all elements as you create them are by default shown, but there is a check box for Hyde, this element. So for example, if you've got a new book coming out and you want to set up the Archivos setting to just bam expose all of these new characters and new elements to your story setting in Archivos, you can do that in advance, hide those elements. And then you go on release day or whatever, or maybe even to patrons, you know, just to have a limited group of individuals, you know, you have a mailing list, for example, you can make it so that only they can see that.

Dave (32m 45s):
So yeah, there's lots of opportunities to not only stage your story setting, but also schedule a and, and roll out elements of your story setting within the app.

Jesper (32m 59s):
Yeah. You mentioned APTA. So what does that mean? You can also do it on, on your phone and stuff like that. Or do you have to have access to a browser

Dave (33m 7s):
Now? We are, we are exclusively desktop. There are plans to actually, I think what we are going to end up having doing is after we complete this next round of development, I think we're going to look at doing a Kickstarter because we very much want to create an app for the phone and for the iPad or for tablets as well for phones and tablets. But as you seen in the app, Yesper a big, and it doesn't translate, it doesn't translate well to a phone display. So we need to revise the interface and do a lot of users, a dialogue to figure out what features need to be accessible within the phone, because the full feature set.

Dave (33m 51s):
It just, it doesn't make sense in that, in that tiny screen.

Jesper (33m 55s):
No, I agree. And I w w I mean, just take the example of a, a lot of the ring stuff. I mean, the, the, the connection map there is massive as well, and you don't want to do that on a screen, but I was more thinking into terms of, and, and of course you can take the system an idea if you wanted to know, but then I was more thinking and the way that 'cause, I think, as to create a or the Worldbuilding, I think you want to do it on a computer browser anyway, 'cause you need the biggest patience and you need to be able to see all those connection dots when you do the right to the different story elements, you know, you, I think it will, you will just be more comfortable doing at the computer versus versus on an app on the phone. But I was more thinking about the phone app as something for the audience.

Jesper (34m 35s):
Basically, I like the reader is stuff where you, you don't need all of this stuff that the writer basically needs, but more like, this is a way where I have an app on my phone, just going to use a dragon lands here, because I love that setting if I had a dragon lands app, and I could just like, open it up and check the character here and check that out. But maybe I don't can't see everything, but that would probably for a hardcore fans, that would be a lovely idea.

Dave (34m 59s):
Absolutely. I agree. And I could see, you know, a, a little, a little hamburger menu up in the corner where if you're looking at, you know, race, and then you can, you can flip a swipe with your, with your thumb, and here are all the story elements associated with race. And so you don't necessarily see the dynamic display, but those associations and the ability to navigate through them remains consistent. I like that. I think that's a great idea.

Jesper (35m 28s):
Yeah, yeah. That, that might be a good idea. I'll take it all. Or you can steal it. That's okay.

Dave (35m 35s):
Yeah. That too, the boys. Absolutely. Yeah. I'll give you a credit full credit.

Jesper (35m 40s):
All right. But is there anything else that, that I forgotten to ask you about around Archivos that you want to mention that

Dave (35m 47s):
No, no, this is a, this has been marvelous. I obviously, I'm not exactly a, a, a, a shy, retiring wallflower when it comes to talking about this thing. I do love this app and I'm

Jesper (35m 58s):
Calm and confident

Dave (36m 1s):
In its ability to help storytellers not necessarily tell better stories, but tell stories better. Hmm. Yeah. That's yeah, that just popped out of my head. I'm going to stick with that, that I like that. So, ah, no, I think, I think, I think we covered all the high points, but just to, just to reiterate that everybody does this differently and that needs to be, you know, I'm always, I'm always leery of someone mandating that this is the way something must be done. Creativity doesn't work that way. Humanity doesn't work that way, but a good tool as a tool that can adapt itself to your unique vision and perspective of your process.

Dave (36m 51s):
And that's very much what we tried to do with Archivos and are continuing to try to do is we continue to develop the app and try and make it a, a, a better and better tool.

Jesper (37m 1s):
Yeah. And, and you can, of course make it as complex as you want, as long as the creator or, or you can keep it as simple as you want. And I think that that's one of the nice things with it. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay. But I'll put a link to Archivos in the show notes for the listeners. If they want to go and check it out, then they can spend it. Thank you. And if there's anything else that you want to meet a link to Dave in the us, you know, just emailed it to me and then I'll put it in there as well.

Dave (37m 27s):
Yeah. I mean, my, my, my voice acting website is buttery man. voice.com. So yeah, it will throw. Yeah, definitely. I, I will, I will link to you. I will. I will email you. Thank you.

Jesper (37m 39s):
All right. All right. And then I want to thank day for joining me today and the, the listener than a Autumn, we'll be back next week. And we will try to have one of our usual good topics available for you.

Narrator (37m 53s):
If you liked what you just heard. There is a few things that you can do to support The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn in Jesper on patreon.com/amwritingfantasy for as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast going to stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 100 – Listener Q&A!

Welcome to our 100th episode! Wahooo! To celebrate, we turned the show over to you, our listeners. We answer YOUR questions in this special edition episode to mark a great beginning.

Don't forget to comment and let us know how we can learn to celebrate our accomplishments a bit better. What do you to mark a special achievement?

And if you want to check out the Fantasy Author Roundtable that Autumn was just a part of, head over to https://youtu.be/ZaDTNJcu2tI!

Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday.  

SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST!

Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review.  

Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you’ll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going. 

Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Narrator (2s):
You're listening to the Am Writing Fantasy podcast in today's publishing landscapes. You can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from Writing Join two best selling authors who have self-published more than 20 books between them now onto the show with your hosts, autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt

Jesper (30s):
Hello I'm Jesper

Autumn (31s):
and I'm Autumn.

Jesper (34s):
This is episode 100 of The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast imagine that you made it to 100 Episode

Autumn (43s):
Oh, I just tickled it. That's pretty much the success story right there.

Jesper (48s):
Yeah I actually prepared a suitable some clips are you ready for it?

Autumn (53s):
Yeah. Sure, sure.

Jesper (56s):
OK. Here we go.

Autumn (1m 3s):
That is, it's a, that's a pretty amazing, I dunno what to say. A a hundred episodes. It's it's a good thing. I mean, this has then the dedicated ask us anything Episode in celebration of it being number 100. So thank you.

Jesper (1m 17s):
Two, all of you who sent in some questions, it was great. And we are looking forward to dive in. So yeah, this is going to be good.

Autumn (1m 25s):
Yes. I can't wait a day. We got some good question.

Jesper (1m 28s):
So we have all of that lined up and like I said, I've just so excited and it's not because I've had like six cups of tea today where I'm just thrilled that we actually made it to a hundred episodes. Yeah. But before we get into all of that, all of that, how, how are things with you?

Autumn (1m 46s):
And I want to be good. Would you believe, and this is a huge confession. So I'm writing my 23rd book. I finally, for the first time ever in my life, I joined nano right now. So I saw that. Yeah. So are you posting about it? Yeah, I, I joined seven days late. Well, I know for some people that would be pretty much a death knell, but I just, I figured I finished the plotting. It's the first time in my life that I had a book, a new book. I was going to start and it was November. So I went for it and we'd just pass while we are recording this, we just passed in the middle of the month and get my word count.

Jesper (2m 31s):
Ahh, 25.

Autumn (2m 33s):
Oh, you are so close. I was a 22,000. So I've, I've made up at least I'm pretty close to making up that first week where I didn't do any writing. I just did plotting. So I think I'm going to survive my first nano right. Mo and hopefully get my badge and I'll at least have to be able to say finally that I did one. Oh yeah. Cool. Yeah. I have never done that. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, it is. It's actually been a lot of fun. I've met some other authors in a Vermont where I'm living and other ones online. I've got some Writing buddies and people that can chat with which we all need more or less there's this week and chat with us and share. Well, it was so it's been really a ton of fun and I'm glad I joined.

Autumn (3m 13s):
So how are things on your side of the Atlantic?

Jesper (3m 18s):
Well, it's a good, I can normally I would probably complaining because a All senior soccer matches has been canceled due to COVID-19 Again so normally I would be complaining about that, but actually I think it's a good thing because it makes me, it gives you a more time to prepare to move houses or, you know, at least Now, I don't spend for, for hours every Saturday in, in refereeing. So it's sort of, that's true.

Autumn (3m 45s):
You go out to your plate pretty much full between the stuff that we've got going on. All of our family, a job moving. So you might have been a bit, a little bit too much of a crunch time for you.

Jesper (3m 59s):
Hey, it is a bit crazy. I must admit even the boys felt that there was a bit of, it was, they were all there. The youngest almost got a bit stressed to set the other day on getting stressed. You said, because they've been busy organizing all the Lego because they have a ton of it and they are getting older. So they are not, they don't really play with it. So they decided that they wanted to put it up for sale, which was fine. So, but then they have to organize it all and put it in bags, everything that belongs together and stuff like that. So, so they've been pretty busy and they've been trying to get it done before we move. So yeah, that was why the youngest set I'm getting stressed. I had to tell him about Lego. I have to work.

Jesper (4m 39s):
Oh, the woes and problems of a child. I just loved the yeah. Yeah. But in mid December we need to be out of the house, but we do get access to the apartment that 1st of December. So I actually am looking forward to the move, even though we are going to have a lot less space in the new place, but the, yeah. But Hey, the apartment is the next to the beach. So I plane. Right?

Autumn (5m 5s):
I know I will be angry at you if you complain. I have spent one winter next to the ocean and Myrtle beach and I miss it very nostalgically now. So I think that, that is so awesome.

Narrator (5m 18s):
A week on the internet with The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast

Jesper (5m 23s):
So we never ever talked politics on this podcast and I'm not going to do it now.

Narrator (5m 29s):
Okay. My heart just skipped a beat and I was going no, no, no, no, no. I'm not going to do it.

Jesper (5m 35s):
I just wanted to mention that I have really noticed how the us election impacted the activity and the Am Writing Fantasy Oh yeah. But I think that it is true. It is they've no one has been unhappy with each other, but I've definitely seen some stuff online where even book sales in the 20 to 50 K a Facebook group has mentioned that a lot of people have seen some tanking in lots of Yeah less activity going on.

Autumn (6m 4s):
So I, I do think that is what is going on in the world. Yeah.

Jesper (6m 9s):
Yeah, exactly. It's not because anybody has been arguing in the Facebook. That's what it is. Not what I meant by more than just meant that there's a lot less posts and comments in there. And normally that's perfectly understandable, but it just stood out to me so much that I noticed it.

Autumn (6m 25s):
Yeah.

Jesper (6m 25s):
Yeah. But if, if your deal is going to have not joined the group yet, and by the way, normally it is very active over there

Autumn (6m 34s):
Normally. Yeah.

Jesper (6m 35s):
So head on over to Facebook and type in Am Writing Fantasy in the search field among the groups and the, you know,

Autumn (6m 41s):
You will find us. Yes. Yes. And it's definitely, I mean, I'm not a huge Facebook fan, but I would stay on Facebook just for Am Writing Fantasy because there are some great folks over there and fantastic questions and interactions. So I do love, what did I get a chance? What I do turn it on Facebook and put it on my Facebook corral before going in. I get to spend some time in there, which is lovely. Yeah.

Jesper (7m 5s):
You don't like Facebook either, but I like the group and I liked to run ads pretty much.

Autumn (7m 11s):
Is it okay. So that's pretty much Yeah keeps us all we're there because we are all authors and who we are. We end up being There. Yeah.

Jesper (7m 20s):
Okay. So anything else to mention Autumn before we dive in to all our wonderful question?

Autumn (7m 24s):
Well, not only that, if you happened to go into the group or look me up on Instagram or Twitter or wherever you want to try to find me, because I swear were like, I had just joined discord because there are no right. Mo So, I just what I needed was another social media account. But if you look me up cause you can't find it on Facebook, they just released the Fantasy Roundtable I was a part of it and that was a lot of fun. So if you're a new author and you're looking for some fancy writing tips from three Fantasy authors, you know, give me a shout out and I will send you the link it's on YouTube. So do you know, it's a fun thing to check out and get some advice and laugh with us as we share.

Autumn (8m 4s):
Yeah. And it is,

Jesper (8m 5s):
If you remember to do so Autumn you could also add the link to the show notes.

Autumn (8m 9s):
Yeah. I will do my best. Yeah.

Jesper (8m 17s):
So we have some great questions lined up. Yeah. But before we get into those, I thought it would be fun if we each reflected a bit on what it feels like to have reached 100 episodes.

Autumn (8m 33s):
Why do you think I am so thrilled? I mean, I've written, I remember when I finished, like my first series, that's what it reminds me of is when you hit that kind of a milestone, your like, gosh, darted, I did it. And why are we so obsessed as humans with round numbers? But besides that, I think it's so amazing. We managed to hit a hundred. I did. We, we didn't count you tube videos. Did we, do you know how many you had published? Yeah. So I think the first something like probably 25 ish, a YouTube video or was it actually YouTube videos that we turn into the Podcast but before then that's probably a hundred YouTube videos even before then.

Autumn (9m 19s):
So, so we were technically at 200 as what you were saying. Yeah. I know what, that's a huge accomplishment. I I'm just, it makes me feel real, I guess is maybe the theory, not professional. I already feel felt, but you know, like I'm not a newbie anymore. We, we deserve like the ones with the little birthday cake with the candle and all of that. Yeah. So how did it make you feel? Yeah. Well, I know I asked this question, you know, I wrote to you and said, well, let let's, let's talk about a bit about this in the beginning, before we get into the actual questions that people have posted. And, and then afterwards, so when I started thinking about it, well, what do I actually feel?

Autumn (10m 3s):
And then I, I got a bit confused with myself. This is like, ah, I don't, I don't know. Maybe, maybe it sounds a bit weird. I don't know. But you know, I, I am happy. Of course we reached episode 100 and, and I know it is not a small feet to have half the Podcast running for this long. There is a lot of PODCAST out there that never even make it to episode 10. Yeah. So of course that part I am happy about. So I'm not trying to say that I'm not, but there's a, but here you can probably guess I think I might have noticed that. Yeah. Yeah. It is. It's just tell me if I'm wrong.

Autumn (10m 43s):
Maybe I'm a bit weird. Right. But it's just like, I don't quite feel it being such a huge accomplishment in, and I, I can not put my finger on Y I mean, perhaps if you just say something about my lack of ability to choose, to do, to celebrate to, I did recently hear that your, your birthday, it was a little bit tone down. So no, while I go ahead and get, you know, it's just like when I finished the writing project, this is what I would just jump on to the next one. So when we finish, we just touched one. We never stop. And I do it and I was going to say that's, I would definitely say, like, it feels, it doesn't feel like an ending.

Autumn (11m 24s):
It feels like just the beginning. I mean, we were in the seven stages. We might have past the intro and maybe were being on the inciting incident, who knows, but it's a lot more to go. So it's a Hill. It's not Everest yet, but it's kind of cool. Talk to us. So we hit a thousand. How are you doing? Oh my God, you'd better have let us celebrate. We will have to get together for the, a thousands, thousands. Episode if I could say that we really do podcasting and I can't talk. Yeah.

Jesper (11m 59s):
It's usually, well, I'm usually the one who can't talk, but

Autumn (12m 4s):
No, but

Jesper (12m 5s):
I think actually rather than waiting for 1000, I think the real lesson here is that I really need to learn how to celebrate it

Autumn (12m 12s):
Accomplishments. So I'm not good at it. I'm good at it. Oh, well, we'll have to find something to celebrate them and, and plan a party. Or if everyone joins Patreon, we have, we guaranteed everyone that if we had hit so many members, we would have a party. So that would be the other way to make you celebrate is that for every one went and joined Patrion for a dollar and we'd have to have a party. And there you go. Oh yeah, that would be awesome.

Jesper (12m 36s):
I think also just between the two of us, you know, Autumn, once we finished building a course or we finished writing a book or something, we need to find a way to, at least in one way or another, celebrate a bit more that we accomplished something because I dunno, I, I never do it. I just jumped straight onto the next thing on my to-do list. And I sort of already forgot all of the stuff I already did.

Autumn (12m 56s):
It is. I think you also forgot that you're talking to the author who finished one book and started the next one's in the exact same day. But I think you're right. I think maybe we will have to rope in our spouses. Maybe we can reopen our listeners. How do you, when we are on different continents, this is not like we're in different States because goodness knows I'm a long distance traveler. If there was a way to drive to where you are, I would have driven there by now because I've gone over a hundred thousand miles in my car. So I can do that. But there is that ocean. It's a very pesky, but I don't have a sailboat at the moment, but how do we need a way of celebrating virtually? So if anyone has fantastic celebration ideas, you know, let us know in the comments we're, we're open to learning too.

Autumn (13m 39s):
We both need rehabilitation to be more celebratory. You know, I like that idea. All right. Okay. Yeah.

Jesper (13m 48s):
Well, I might not be a very good at celebrating. I do love recording this podcast and I had to have a question for you on it.

Autumn (13m 55s):
All right. Ooh. Yeah,

Jesper (13m 58s):
Because I, I feel like we've had some great conversations on this, on this podcast and we've also had some great guests on, I was wondering which one of the past 99 episodes was one of one, which one was your favorite and why?

Autumn (14m 15s):
Oh, that's a good question. You know, off the top of my head, I would say if you talked about ones I'm most proud of when you interviewed Joanna Penn, my heart to like, Oh my God, that's so amazing that she was on as our guest, but honestly sincerely from my heart. My favorite episode was 69 and my journey as an author of the good and the bad.

Jesper (14m 37s):
And do you want to know what else? Yeah,

Autumn (14m 40s):
For sure. Because that's one, where are you listed us as teaming up as one of your highlights as an author? And I just love that. So Oh yeah. I have sent a mental that way, so I just thought, well, that's good. No, I actually forgot about that. No, no, no. That's good. That's good.

Jesper (15m 0s):
A good pick. That's a good pick now. I don't, I don't let your, I can do the same. So

Autumn (15m 5s):
That's how I got to go first. Yeah.

Jesper (15m 8s):
But now, you know, and how you make my life difficult.

Autumn (15m 12s):
That is partially my role. Yeah.

Jesper (15m 15s):
Yeah. I noticed I should have asked

Autumn (15m 18s):
The question. You should've made me ask you that question, I guess.

Jesper (15m 24s):
Yeah. I don't know. I mean, we've had so many good guests on and they were so many to pick from. I mean, you mentioned Joanna Penn where you've had Oh yeah. Mike, Leslie live fav, who am I forgetting? Sasha, a black. We had our own of course Alexa, big Muff. I guess that's how you say it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I could go on and on Kristen Oliphant as well. I know I've probably forgotten a few names. Do you have, and, and I don't mean to, so sorry, if any of the guests or a past guest are listening here, there's just so many to choose from. Yeah. There, there was also the kinds of episodes where you are and I do alternating lists.

Autumn (16m 5s):
I like those as well. Yeah. Yeah.

Jesper (16m 8s):
So there's a lot to choose Sean, but if I have to choose only one, I think I would say probably Episode 34. Do you know which one that is?

Autumn (16m 19s):
No. No. Which one is about wine

Jesper (16m 22s):
Is actually not covered by covering any topic at all. And it is not having any particularly important guest on either

Autumn (16m 32s):
Or what are you doing? Yeah,

Jesper (16m 35s):
Well, I actually chose it because it was the episode where we announced that we were going to stop creating YouTube videos and turn this into, Oh, well, that's a good one that I think that was the best one because I thought that I think that's the best decision we made.

Autumn (16m 53s):
Well, I am not complaining. I really enjoy the podcast format more than I expected I would, but it's, it's a wonderful, and it's a great working with you. And so I think that one's a fantastic one. Yeah. Yeah.

Jesper (17m 8s):
I still don't feel it's sort of, it's a script.

Autumn (17m 13s):
Yeah. Well, you know, I have one of the last couple of our recent contests, so it's just the way it goes.

Jesper (17m 20s):
So I guess, yeah. I can just feel honored that I'm doing the Podcast with you since you were so good at it.

Autumn (17m 26s):
Well, thank you. Well, I wouldn't be doing it at all if it wasn't for you. So there you go. There it's a party.

Jesper (17m 35s):
Well, yeah, indeed. So we have, we have some good questions because some people gave us some audio files and those great. So we are going to play those today. Yes. And we also got quite a number of questions

Autumn (17m 51s):
Sent in via a text or emails or somebody field in the Google form that we announced previous page and so on. So it was

Jesper (17m 59s):
Thinking we were just going to go through them one by one, and then we can see it,

Autumn (18m 4s):
Both reply to all of the questions and that's it for today. Oh, all right. Well that sounds almost too easy, but I can't wait. Yeah.

Jesper (18m 13s):
So, okay. I'll try to, just to be a bit of a, in the driver's seat here. Not because I want it to be a, A control freak, but just because then we make sure that we got, we get through all of them in, in a bit of an order. So that's the only reason and without taking an hour and a half, so yeah. But okay. Let's, let's get started here. And the first question is from seed and a safe asks, what single work has most direct, directly influenced your Fantasy Writing. Hm. And what did he say about that? I would say that's a tough one. I, the one thing that I can say came up to me is simply the short story, ah, by Anne McCaffrey on dragon impression, I can't even remember the name of it.

Autumn (19m 4s):
And I know its just a short story. So if you Google it short story on McCaffrey, the dragon impression and it it's funny because that's really not changing my Fantasy Writing. But if I hadn't read that, that is the story that hooked me on Fantasy and dragons. And I took me on as a reader and opened up the whole genre to me. So if it wasn't for that one eye to eye, it could be writing my best friend, loved mystery and Nancy drew. So who knows I could have fallen into that, but no, I write Fantasy because of that story. How about you? I don't think I

Jesper (19m 39s):
Have, it is an old won the order

Autumn (19m 41s):
Or it's a bit older than you are. So yes, it has an old way and I was right in and like elementary school is, it is. And I, I would have to, Again go. It was in a compilation, but I think you can actually find it a solo online now it's that old or is it one of

Jesper (20m 5s):
Those words? It was good back then, but no, not anymore.

Autumn (20m 8s):
I haven't re-read it honestly, I just know it's I just absolutely fell in love. I mean, it was a little boy who wanted to become a, a dragon rider and he ended up getting the bronze dragon witch next to the queen is like the top dragging to get it. But I mean, it, it's just, it's sweet and it has dragons. You get to choose, you know, a dragon Bond's with you and it's so I don't want to reread it. Its just the memories of it is wonderful. Like, okay, well,

Jesper (20m 35s):
So for me I would say, well the, the question is influenced my writing and, and then I would probably say a lot of the rings.

Autumn (20m 43s):
I know that that's not very original. I dunno. I really liked

Jesper (20m 49s):
Talking's WRITING well everything except Tom Bombadil

Autumn (20m 58s):
I really liked his writing, but yeah.

Jesper (21m 2s):
Yeah. You were talking about getting hooked on FANTASY as my love for the fence has shown WRA was not talking. It actually started off with the ranking lands.

Autumn (21m 14s):
Yeah. Those

Jesper (21m 14s):
Books really got me hooked on Fantasy and it's actually quite funny last week. This is not an a, a, a new book either, but last week I was going through on the Kindle books on Amazon

Autumn (21m 27s):
And I was there. I can't remember why,

Jesper (21m 28s):
But I was looking for some, some of the old dragon lands books, maybe it's because I'm reading them with the, with the,

Autumn (21m 35s):
So with my kids. So maybe that's why while I was looking through it But but then

Jesper (21m 39s):
All of the sudden I noticed that there was a book

Autumn (21m 42s):
About race Lim, you know, he, he, he he's like, yeah. So I bought that. I haven't started

Jesper (21m 49s):
Reading it yet, but I I'm really looking forward to reading

Autumn (21m 51s):
That one. It's a new me who I just hadn't noticed it before, you know, because I had read all of those up until I think we got into the forgotten realms or whatever. And at some point in the 20th book, I, I stopped reading and so I've drifted away, but yeah, you'll have to let me know how that is because I might want to revisit that world. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Jesper (22m 15s):
Okay. So the next one, I have an audio recording, so let's listen what Micah has to do.

Micah (22m 23s):
How do you guys get and keep your inspiration?

Jesper (22m 27s):
So that was a, maybe a bit low. So let me just repeat it. So Micah asked, how do we get and keep our inspiration.

Autumn (22m 36s):
All right. Oh, that's Hmm, because I, yeah, I, I was looking at to see that his entire one, you want to know that, especially to complete a novel. So that is a tough one, I guess. I think it's part of my personality. I am a task oriented and I like to finish anything. I start. And when I was at a studio artist, because I was painting way before I was writing, I would always finish anything that I started because I just, I started it. Of course we are going to finish it, but to keep the inspiration going, I think you have to, for me to keep it alive is I fall in love with the characters to the point where they wake up me off and in the middle of the night. And it's sometimes more alive to me than the world around me, which I actually think is a flaw.

Autumn (23m 20s):
I have to, I think, goodness, I have a husband in a dog because I don't know. I'd be, I'd be like the lady of Shalott up in my tower and like daydreaming all day, instead of actually remembering that there was an actual world outside my door that I should go visit occasionally. So to me, I just live in my stories. I love my stories and they just, I was meant to be a writer and to tell these stories. And so that is how I keep the going is by feeding them frequently with ideas and sing songs. And even with my husband, we play word games all the time. Thank goodness. He's like, he likes literary things. Are we probably spend one or two together after 20 years or so that's a good sign, but that's how I to beat at you.

Autumn (24m 3s):
You have to feed your idea's, you feed your stories, you let your characters become. So Real that to let go of them to not spend time with them hurts. And so you keep writing. Yeah, that's a good answer. I might be slightly, you know,

Jesper (24m 24s):
I think for me in terms of getting inspiration, I get it from everywhere. You know, sometimes I can wake up in the morning and then there was some sort of scene playing in my head and I quickly have to write it down. So I always have a notepad next to my bed because then I often good idea. So w when I sleep in, when I wake up other times, maybe I'm reading something or watching the movie, or there's just something that triggers me and then write that down as well. It can also be a Podcast that I'm listening to. I I must say that Yeah my inspiration, mostly comm in the form of scenes or like concepts that I think are cool.

Jesper (25m 9s):
And then I built from there. But I, I think as far as keeping the inspiration going, I, I have to do a bit of a shameless plug here, because if you think of the inspiration and going, we actually cover this in quite some detail, and I've got in a guidebook about story ideas. And so that one can be found on Amazon or everywhere else that you buy books a day. And by the way, if you, instead of buy the plotting book, it's called plot development, you can get the story idea of a book for free. There was a link inside that plodding book for it. But I am saying all of that 'cause once we have solid premise, which was what we discussed and that book, how to develop, then once that is done, then we also know that we have something that is interesting enough to keep the story going until to the end.

Jesper (25m 60s):
So yeah, I just have to do that block there because I really do think that really answers the question. That's how, that's how we keep it going. That's true. It's a very good point. Yeah. So we also had a question from Lisa. Perhaps you can read that one. All of them.

Autumn (26m 14s):
Yes. I will read the, the question park so that she had sent it on a little bit of a fun story as well, but we'll go with the question, Alyssa, and I often wonder what it is like to be so immersed in a story and then keep going. I know you have to decide to pull the plug because you would become sick of eating and drinking and sleeping about it. I'm sure. But don't you ever come up with another idea or a thought and wanting to go back or do you just move on? So what do you want to start with that one? Yeah. I mean,

Jesper (26m 44s):
It does happen more often than not that I get another idea or think of a way to maybe it could be a full of the story idea, but it could also be just a way to expand on something that I'm already writing. You know, that, Oh, it would be cool if, if it was like this and data as well, and then that sort of, Spock's a side story or something almost. But I think I found that it is far more efficient to avoid the temptation in this situation. Just write it down and that idea that you got, so you don't forget about it and then keep going with what you originally were working upon. Because unless it's something that I can fix like, and a few minutes, do you, like, if it's just an idea like, Oh, okay, cool.

Jesper (27m 27s):
Not cool if I did like this and that. And I, I can just add one more paragraph or something that is fine, then I'll do it right away. But otherwise I'll leave it for the editing stages. So I think when first drafting, at least it saves a lot of time and the fast I can make the Writing go during the first draft, the better for me. But I also think for the reader 'cause at the end of the day to that the book will be done more quickly that way. So I know exactly what you mean and what Lisa means. I know what you mean by the question Lisa But, but I think it's best to avoid the temptation, but I don't know if you agree with that. All of them.

Autumn (28m 4s):
No, I agree. Because I was going to say just sort of like what I said, I don't mind eating and drinking and just living in this story to the point where sometimes I forget the real world exists. So it wasn't like being in having to adult occasionally and make money. And those sorts of things go to the grocery store. I if I did well, if I wasn't a cook in the family, I would probably forget to eat occasionally. I honestly would. I can get so wrapped up in this stuff, but yeah, I do sometimes think of other ideas or like if I'm writing, if its an idea for the current book I'm writing, I will go back. And if it's something that I've already written, I'll just highlight and do a comment. If it's something that's further ahead, because I have all my stories in chapters outlined, I'll just put a note in that chapter outline and I want to get there, I'll put it in where it needs to be or I'll fix it in the editing.

Autumn (28m 50s):
But if it's a completely different story, because I'm a bit of a pantser slash Potter, a plotter, I'm a hybrid. So I will just simply take a note. There's nothing, there's no idea they can come to me. That is so fully fledged that I can just jump to it because I would want to spend time with it. I want to get to know the character as I need to plot it out. I need to figure it out the world and world build and develop. There's so much work that goes into wanting to start a story that I don't ever just jumped to It eggs. So if I happened to be getting close to finishing a series, I have learned it's a lot less painful if I let go of my characters gently and I've already started world-building and Writing and developing the other story.

Autumn (29m 35s):
So I, I, this is me. I have written three books, three, like, you know, three things at the same time. So, but I have one main story and I started on a second plot. You and I are going to be writing together, plus I'm writing on my own. So it's I do a lot of Writing, but I find that it works. I'm very compartmentalized in my mind. So I can just, you know, open up that file cabinet and go write in and spend a lots of time in this wonderful they're magical filing cabinets. Do you don't want to sound boring? They're like you open it up and there's a whole little world in their, and it's really exciting and you know, they were stars. So if it's not really, it's not one of those boring office ones, it's a magical, but that's so that's how I do it. If it's a really good idea, I take copious notes.

Autumn (30m 17s):
I put it aside. I start developing it on the side and if it's really, really good, eventually it becomes a side project. And when the main one finishes, it becomes the next one.

Jesper (30m 29s):
Very good. So next question is from Mark, Justin. So Mark says one time I show up someone, my writing, they said it felt more fitting to call it a visual novel script than a traditional story. What's one way to make the Writing Flo better and not feel like a bunch of texts. This is right down your alley.

Autumn (30m 53s):
It is, it's also a tough one. But so the thing is, it just depends on what, what they meant by a visual novel. I mean, do you have mostly dialog? Do you have mostly information, but to bring it alive is to bring the world to live, to bring, do you want to just kind of suck the reader into a character's head? So you need to choose a point of view and we call it a deep point of view that you feel like you are sitting inside of a character is head and you sense whatever they sent. So that's not just seeing which is where the visual it comes from, but you want to know what they're smelling, what are they touching, tasting? What do they feel? You want to know that you have demotions. So that other sense as well as there, once you can pull that world and bring it to life so that you can describe the character walking through the forest and they hear the crunch of the leaves, they smell the wet earth, one of the ferns in the Moss and they feel the wind on their skin.

Autumn (31m 50s):
When you have that texts that is building those layers of the world up to the reader and you're sharing the dialogue and you're having all of that. That's going to make it flesh out that world really well.

Jesper (32m 4s):
Yeah, all of the stuff around the a M emotion or like the census and stuff. That was also where I was going. But I would say on top of that, I encourage you to listen to a recent episode 98 actually, because we talked about the new top mistakes that new authors make in that episode. And there's quite a few tips and tricks there that I think you will find that useful. He Mark, you also said that, that it should not feel like a bunch of text and this might not have been what you meant by it. But when you said that, it, it sort of made me think about infidelity.

Jesper (32m 44s):
You know what, these lots of blocks of text where you just explain something to the reader at that might not be at all what you meant by a bunch of text, but, but on top of the situation around the census that the order, or just explain it so well, I think it is important that you also find ways in which to deliver those kind of world-building information through the actions of the characters or through dialog, because at least when it comes to making the writing flow better, that makes a huge difference. Yes. Just we could be just before we started recording, I was just talking to Autumn about a book that I recently, I'm not going to say what to type, which book it, because then somebody might get mad with that chapter's of chapters of info dumping at the time.

Jesper (33m 36s):
It's really not, it does not flow where we will. Yeah. And I checked some of the, some of the Amazon reviews as well. And they pointed that out. Not always so politely, but that's exactly what they read about it. Yeah. But okay. I think that one is probably covered there. So a, we have another audio files I'm going to play now.

James (34m 0s):
Autumn and Yesper congratulations on your 100th Podcast you guys are really dedicated and you are an inspiration, I think to us all you are to me anyway, I've got a question. What methods do you have to turn to, to de-stress or at least try to when taking a break during a particularly difficult period of problematic Writing

Jesper (34m 31s):
Mm that's a good one. Do you stress? We live on stress. Well, you know, honestly, I was just thinking, I don't know if I'm the best one to answer this one because I really never struggled that much with feeling stressed. I know I'm lucky in that way, but I really don't feel it. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm just not in tune with them on my own emotions or something. I don't know, but I don't really feel stressed. But what I can say though, is I do like to go for a walk and I try to do that most days of the week. And I also three times a week in the morning before I do anything else, I run five kilometers before I start my Workday.

Jesper (35m 16s):
And then in the evenings, I do like to relax watching Netflix, HBO, Amazon, or something like this. And so I guess you could say that that helps to distress myself, but I don't know, as I said, I'm not the best one to answer this one. So I hope you will have some I'm starting with you now. Yeah, it was gonna say I was starting to think of my writing partner is actually an AI, but I, that you're not. So

Autumn (35m 40s):
Oh, that's a tough one and it really depends on what's causing stress. I am definitely a little bit of a masochist. So if something is bothering me, I sometimes dig in my mom calls it stubborn. I call it a dedicated. So sometimes, you know, if I'm really hitting a wall, but I, I just, haven't been trying that long. And you know, maybe they've been sitting down for 15 minutes and I'm like, you know, I, I am a writer and this is my job. This is my career. So I'll start doing like, what if questions are or write down the problem I'm having. And then I'll see, you know, do some brainstorming Writing right into the novel and then just delete it later of, you know, what needs to happen? Why am I stuck? But I agree.

Autumn (36m 20s):
It sometimes Writing up cooking. Obviously I loved food. So that is going to be very inspirational. And it does seem as soon as I get involved in something very complicated that, you know, my hands or covering guru and I'm like, Oh, well, that's the answer I need to do to take action on device. It's really messy. Sometimes. I don't mind a little bit of why is it a little bit of an eye like rum? And I like scotch. Those are a little go-tos, I'll sit down with that and stare at my computer a little bit longer. But yeah, sometimes it's like, you know, I look at the dog, the dog looks at me and I'm like, why don't we go for a walk into the world? All has been in a better place. And I forget about everything.

Autumn (37m 1s):
And once we're back from playing in the stream and hunting for frogs, we will, I'll get back to work. And it's usually a little bit better. I don't ever, I have hit a few spots if I've worked on a chapter and I'm on the same chapter for, I would say three days, three days. If I were on the same chapter for three days, I, I feel like it's been too long. It's going on forever and I'm stuck. And I also sometimes just write a couple sentences and just go to the next one and then come back and fix it later. And that it couldn't get it.

Jesper (37m 28s):
That picks out of my mind if it's just sitting there with a glass of wine staring at the screen this way.

Autumn (37m 37s):
Well, the next time it happened, so I'll have my husband takes a picture for you. Yeah. It just looks at me.

Jesper (37m 42s):
I've been here waiting for, for inspiration. I know what is going to come soon or later.

Autumn (37m 47s):
Cheers. No worries. Yeah. All right. Okay. So

Jesper (37m 53s):
Do we have another question from state and perhaps you can take this one.

Autumn (37m 57s):
Yeah. So we'd also ask which part of the journey from concept a publication two, you hate the most. Hmm. So what's your least favorite part. Yeah. This was not that difficult for me, but this was all

Jesper (38m 14s):
For why we have divided the workload between us the

Autumn (38m 16s):
Way we have, because I hate that. I hate the most of this editing. Its I really love it.

Jesper (38m 25s):
Like the results of the editing. I love when the first draft turns into something that flows really nicely and all the words are sounding good with that stuff.

Autumn (38m 33s):
No, I love it, but I hate going through it because it is so painfully slow and it annoys the crap out of me when I spent three hours and I've only edited one chapter. I hate it. That's why I get all of them to do the right thing. And that's why editing is not my answer. Yeah. And this one was a tough one for me because what I hate the most is after publication, I hate AMS ads or anything that requires going back. And fine-tuning, if you have to have read my pet Patrion post for today. Yeah. I was just, it happened to have resonated really well with this question.

Autumn (39m 14s):
I am just not that good at sitting down and fine tuning in looking at iteration after iteration, after iteration and just sticking with it and not feeling like I'm panicking because I'm wasting money or it's not going anywhere. I just spreadsheet results. Statistics, calculus, algebra. I love mathematics except for statistics. Statistics are not mathematics. They should just be burned. So when it comes to those stuff, when you're boiling down results into numbers and I know it's important, but my brain just goes with, it just goes up in flames. So that's why I have you. You handle it. But since I can, technically after the MOH, the publication and that's when he asked me, I would say for me to fit the parameters, I'll just say, it's a question.

Autumn (40m 3s):
I my least favorite part is simply the time it takes. I love the stories and I want to spend so much time and I'm task oriented and I, I just wanna sit down and it was like, by day on my birthday, you people have said, what do you want to do? I'm like, I'm going to write. I was like, well, that's not going to get me anywhere because it'll just be another 2000 words closer to my hundred thousand. And then I'm going to start a, another novel and I've never going to be done until I take my last breath. And then when I'm just aware of my ghost will keep writing. So it's the time I want to be able to write these stories out so much faster. I want that one hour extra hour is that I'm writing on my birthday, you know, to mean something more than a drop in a bucket, but it doesn't Yeah

Jesper (40m 44s):
There was a loop back to the conversation about celebration he has. Yeah.

Autumn (40m 48s):
Or there might be, Oh, we gotta work on that. Yeah. Okay. So,

Jesper (40m 56s):
So let's jump into next question. And this, the one is from Felipe a, so Phillip says, as I outlined cereal, the setting, I am drawn to keep them constantly morphing time period. Magic predominance levels of tech, aesthetics, et cetera, to the point that it halts progress, what to do. Should I commit to something? Even if something else is more interesting should how do I block the influx of influences?

Autumn (41m 29s):
Hmm Hmm. That's a good one. That is a good one. Can I just say yes, yes. Yeah. So that was my answer is yes. But yes. You have to choose one. You have to make that decision. And even if you doubt it later, you have to make it the best that you can. And it is an example. I was Writing the sixth book in one of my, my world of Mira, my elemental Magic series. And I think it was half way through. And I'm like, you know what? I really actually have started bonding with the villain who up until then, I didn't like in the sixth book and I suddenly saw his perspective and I thought, Oh my gosh, this book, I could tell it totally from his view, he is totally right.

Autumn (42m 9s):
Every one else is completely wrong for trying to stop him. And I'm like, why, why not rewriting in the entire series? That, that idea is still in me. And I still think, Oh, I could bring him back and do something so cool with him. But I had to let it go because I had to make that decision. You have to keep going. You ha, if you were going to write a book, you gotta write the book and take those ideas that you think are so cool. And put them aside and write a book with those. But you do just have to make that decision. You have to stick to it. You got to write the book and just trying to save up the other inspiration for something later.

Jesper (42m 48s):
Yeah. It almost sounds to me for sleep that you need to spend a bit of more time in that wonderful place of world building, because then, you know, if you were saying that your concepts aren't clear and you sort of come up with things on the fly that you struggle with consistencies, Well, you are going to create quite a lot of editing work for yourself. So I think it's probably better if you try to spend a bit more time in the world building phase here Autumn and I always complete the world-building, you know, nailing down in the setting before we started writing, because this is a lot of this allows us to inform the writing with details that are actually quite honestly, we could never thought of during the

Autumn (43m 33s):
Writing itself.

Jesper (43m 37s):
So try to separate the world building from your outline. It almost sounds like you were sort of doing both in parallel here, but see if you can just spread them or separate them. So when you do all of your world-building first, and then you worked on your outline, I think then you are your experience with everything keeps morphing won't happen so much now because then you already know your world, you know what your setting, you know what you want it to be there and then you can work on your outline and, and make that influence the outline.

Autumn (44m 10s):
So

Jesper (44m 11s):
Yeah. Mapping out your story. Once you have that from grass off your setting. I think that will help a lot.

Autumn (44m 18s):
Yeah, definitely. Okay.

Jesper (44m 21s):
We didn't have another question from Cory.

Autumn (44m 24s):
Yes. All right. Corey ask, what is the most effective way to overcome writer's block? I've tried reading and that I've trying to write right after listening to audio books. When I Writing listening to music, meditating, nothing seems to work. And I haven't written in a nearly three weeks now. So what are some tips you can give me?

Jesper (44m 43s):
Well, I'm sorry to hear that. Query I, yeah. I feel with you, a lot of authors are struggling with things like that. So please don't feel alone. I think my number one tip is outlining. I know some people don't like outlining. That's why we wrote a whole, a guide book on how to outline to, to help some of those people. Because if you try to map out your story in advance, I would say 99% of the times where authors experience writer's block it's because they don't know what needs to happen next. So they get stuck and they were like, well, I don't quite know where this is going. I don't know what I want that to happen.

Jesper (45m 24s):
And if I think if something, is that exciting enough, does it hit the right tropes or does it sync up with the character arc and so on and so on. So yeah, as you mentioned early in this episode, Autumn and I wrote a full step by step guide on how to plot a novel. So you can go and search for our name's on Amazon. If you want to have a check or check out that book, if you want, but you don't have to, you, you can also try to go about it all on your own if you want. But, but I would say try to spend some time, you know, outlining and understanding your story. Query I feel that that will probably help you.

Autumn (46m 1s):
Yes, I agree. Indefinitely. It's a, you know, I always love that. Quote, as an author who isn't writing is courting madness. I mean, it's just itches under our skin and it seems to reinforce itself. So, I mean, she's trying to, a lot of the things I suggest other than a little bit of line, but it works for me, but another good thing. So if nothing else was working, I agree with that, come up with some, what if questions, especially if you're, if you're stuck with a chapter, like what's supposed to happen in the chapter, you know, look at how to set up the chapter, what is happening and what's the hook, what is it going to be starting with the character's goals, look through all of that, do some brainstorming questions about what's going on, try to, you know, read whatever, think about this character, to think about the characters arc, what are they what'd they just do, what are they trying to accomplish?

Autumn (46m 51s):
Sometimes just a sink into their heads. I will switch if I'm writing at first third person, which was how I prefer to Wright. Maybe I'll do a quick sentences and first person try to talk about what they're seeing, feeling, thinking right then. And even if I end up cutting it later, just trying to force my head into this character's in the world and what is happening in the novel. And usually something in there will give finally, and that I can just go on and I we'll be able to. Right. And sometimes there was a few pieces of gold and you get to do some great setting or a world-building that you hadn't been, you know, you might not have come up with otherwise and you can keep, but honestly, a lot of the times you're just doing some brainstorming that you're probably gonna end up deleting, but you'll be writing.

Autumn (47m 36s):
So that's the important thing. Yeah.

Jesper (47m 40s):
Okay, good. We have another question from Anthony. So Anthony asks, I have heard a lot about barriers, points of views, but when I do research on them, I only find the basics. So the question is how do you decide which point of views best fit your story? And if you are using multiple point of views, which character is the best for that scene? As a second question, if you were writing in multiple point of views, how do you make sure your character voices are

Autumn (48m 13s):
Distinct? Right. That's a good question. There was a very good question as a, both a very good questions and it's, it's hard to break them down. And so I would say first, when you're writing your book, I know you and I both write in multiple points of view is that we love having different characters. Coz I think it, it adds too a complicated Plott, but there is nothing wrong with having just one point of view the Hobbit. It is a great example and it's in pretty much, at one point of view, its with stood this test of time. There is nothing wrong with that. So did you consider that if your feeling really challenged, try to stick to just one character point of view, try to do a deep point of view, which is your not omniscient. You don't know everything going around. You just know what it is that one character can look, see, feel, and here.

Autumn (48m 57s):
So you can't, you know, for shadow with anything that they wouldn't know, which is one reason you add another point of views 'cause then you can add those in other places and build tension for the reader of that way to choose which one to use. You know, you don't want to use too many U and I have written, you know, we have a course on this and we have a whole character development course so that it can really talk to you about how many characters you should have and how to develop their voice. But you don't want to have to many either. You don't want to be, you know, 12 characters in the first book or something, you know, For is a fine six. This is getting a little too many. Especially even if you have a, a a hundred thousand words, you don't want to have too many, the character is supposed to, the reader is supposed to bond with these characters.

Autumn (49m 41s):
If you have too many of your jumping all over, there are not going to know you don't want to, you know, if I'd want the reader confused, you want to give them very song, solid points of view so that they can bond with the characters that they feel the emotions or the characters or the rooting for the characters. And you can't do that when you have 16 different characters, unless your George R. Martin and you're writing something that takes for decades, then maybe you could do it, but otherwise know, and to choose which one you want to go with, whoever has the most impact. So you would choose a character who maybe is doing the action in the scene, or maybe the character who is going to have the most emotional cliffhanger at the end of it.

Autumn (50m 25s):
But you want it to make sure that its also the one that is going to tell this story and you wanna make sure that every character has a three to four to five chapters in their point of view, if your only having a one chapter point of view as a character, don't use it. You know, you, you can't tell a character arc in just one chapter and any character who has a point of view, definitely needs a character arcs. So you are going to have at least three to five chapters minimum for each of these point of view character. So that's going to flush out your novel really quick. They are going to have subplots are going to have things going on and its all going to tie back into the main plot. It's a lot of outlining. So one character, one point of view is fine for a novel. If you want to keep things simple and some have ways of keeping your character voices distinct, you're going to have to find out what works for you.

Autumn (51m 12s):
Some of the things that I've suggested is if you come up with a totem for each character or sometimes I've written in colors, this characters is always in red or even in Scrivener are all my characters. I actually use character colors. So I know whose point of view I'm in. So that's fine. You can choose colors. You can choose a totem. So you know, this one is wildly. So you are wasting called a Fox. I've had characters who, you know, I really listened to a song and it fits gets me into their mood and also think about, you know, distinct things that they would have either action's are phrases. If you have a sailor, they are going to call tension like a top rigging line where if someone else is a mercenary, there's always going to be referring to things as a way of battle taxes.

Autumn (51m 56s):
You know, once you learn to develop those character, two phases and lens that they see the world and then you're going to have the distinctive Voice coming out for each character. That was a long I'm sorry.

Jesper (52m 9s):
Well, I think you basically covered the entire thing. So that was good. I think the only thing I would add is a, well of course a that that plot development book, actually the entire first section of that book covers this questions. But the only thing I would add it on top of what you just said, which I fully agree with is that think a bit about which couches are going to spent a lot of time together in the same scene's for example, if you have like a Frodo and Sam kind of situation, where they spent most of this story together, then I would say avoid making Sam a character, like a point of view character, because it's simply gonna be challenging to keep it interesting because what, what are you going to do to explain the same, seen to a few times all the time, 'cause it?

Jesper (52m 58s):
You know, you'll see what I mean, write that, that it does not work. So just think of a bit about where our characters is going to be throughout the story and how much time are they going to spend together and where are you have them spending a lot of time together and avoid one of them being the point of view character or at least they agreed. But otherwise I agree with all this stuff that all of them said. Yeah. Okay. Final a good question. And also final audio clips of the day.

Zhade (53m 27s):
Hey guys, thanks so much for picking my question. It really appreciate it. And if I can, I just want to start by thanking you so much for running the PODCAST. It is pretty much the highlight of my week. Absolutely loving it. And the online community is that you were running on patchy on, on Facebook. I've helped me more than I can say over the last year. Thank you so much. Okay. So in terms of my question, it's this Yesper what are you most like in our Autumn is Writing and Autumn what do you most like about Yesper is Writing

Autumn (53m 58s):
Thank you for that question to say it. I really appreciate the kind words are not only from you, but also from, from James and everybody else who, who send us a really kind words. So, so thank you. For for data, but I really liked this question. When I say, when I heard it the first night, I was like, Oh, okay. That one's a good one. I didn't expect that. I like that one too. All right. So yeah, so I can actually mention two things. Oh, all right. Yeah, because there are two things I like the most about your writing Autumn is a first of all, I like how you describe scenery. Like, you know, you're really good at making it sound interesting at the same time, you are able to conjure up images in my mind about what the place has solved.

Autumn (54m 47s):
Look at what it looks like. So, that's something you are really good at. And I really like that, but even more probably I like your ability to do capture development. I feel like you, you were able to breathe a lot of life into the characters in a way that makes them come off as individuals, rather than just some cardboard people who run around doing some actions, they feel much more like real people with their own motivations. So yeah, you you're just a really good rider. Well, thank you very much. So that was good. I actually am going to actually mention, I like your characters to, because I like how we were both.

Autumn (55m 27s):
I'm a no nonsense people they think. And so your stories in your writing, it doesn't get bogged down. And I just told you before we started recording and that I had read a book and it was just, there was times at this character got so bogged down in dresses and things that I am just not that type of girl. And I like that. You do, you keep things moving. And I actually, I love that your first Trelegy has a, you know, women are the main character and it's, you know, you did that, that you did a great job with it. You went in for a lot of action and its interesting and it's a different world and we both made the funds, not quite mistake, mistake of a very different worlds in a very tough stories.

Autumn (56m 9s):
This is our first year we had some similar tactics and they were just like, this is, this is cool. I didn't know all of this. When we started out on this journey of Am Writing Fantasy together. It kind of, I don't know, we kind of looked out. I can't come. So yeah, I think so, but, and that's what I like is our, our storylines in our way of tackling things meshes incredibly well. And that to me is just so exciting. You can't, you talked to so many other authors and they have such differences that they can't have a hard time riding together. And I think we are going to be just fine because we like each other's style and we have very similar kind of action-based exciting adventures where gender isn't an issue and racism is an issue.

Autumn (56m 60s):
And we tend to think you might have a little bit more of a darker tone and mine goes more towards no bright, but I think we are going to combine this into something amazing.

Jesper (57m 9s):
Yeah. Yeah. I agree. So yeah, this was a lot of fun episode, 100 into QA session like this. I, I think that was good.

Autumn (57m 17s):
So this was a really good, it was a lot of fun And I yeah. Thank you so much for all the questions. And I did have one for you, even though we were running long on time, but recently you have discovered an Easter egg out of how I got into self writing and self-publishing I was wondering Now you know how I did, I was wondering how, what got you into self publishing and made you finally sit down and become a writer,

Jesper (57m 46s):
Right. Okay. Yeah. Fine. I will answer that, but, but actually you have to, you have to explain your own as well for them to do it because otherwise they have no idea. Yeah. Okay. So, so, but for me it was more like, so I've always had this idea for like many, many, not always, but for many, many, many years, I've had this idea that one day, once I retired, then I could write some stories. And then, you know, you should only most years, not every year, but most years we, our family goes to Finland for some of the occasion and in Finland, you know, we, we were in the summer cottage and there you spent quite a lot of time, you know, going and so on there and relaxing and stuff like that.

Jesper (58m 34s):
And then there was this one evening back in 2015 when I was sitting in that sauna, I don't remember if my wife was out swimming or whatever, but I was at Lee. I was alone in there and I were sitting down. I, I started thinking like, why is it that I've gotten into my head that I can only write once I get, I get to retirement? Why couldn't I just write something? You know, I might not be very fast at it because I have to do day jobs and whatnot, but I could just write a bit here and there. Well, why, why, why couldn't I just do that and why am I feeling limited? And actually the next morning I got an out, I got a laptop out and I started writing.

Jesper (59m 18s):
It was a complete nightmare and this, and it has been

Autumn (59m 23s):
Deleted many times over the same, but it's not letting the next day. And I never stopped since then. That was wonderful. I love that. All right. But yes. So to explain since no one else got a, you know, only a few people would have heard my other story, but I had something similar. I mean, I, I was actually a S an artist very long and my license, like it was for, I want it to be an artist, but I always actually wrote on the stock side all the way down to my mother, having recently shown me M a journal I'd kept actually as a kid and my husband then stole in secret away because I was going to burn. I was so horrible, but I didn't really take it seriously.

Autumn (1h 0m 6s):
But I had a habit of writing in notebooks in college because I was so bored in school. Even in college, I went with an English degree and I'd write stories in my notebook. And my husband found one and said, Oh my gosh, he wrote this. This is, this is fantastic. You should write. And he encouraged me. And he actually sent me an article on self publishing with a woman who is in a similar job. And so you have a similar agency as I was working in it at the time. And he was the reason I published my first book. Isn't that amazing? Isn't it? It's all his fault. Right?

Autumn (1h 0m 46s):
Okay. So the next Monday I have a great interview lined up for you and it's concerning one of my favorite topics. Not map kick this time. We'll be building.

Narrator (1h 0m 57s):
If you liked what you just heard, there is a few things you can do to support The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast please tell a fellow Author or about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn in Jesper on patrion.com/am Writing Fantasy for as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast going to stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 99 – The Opportunities for Self Published Authors Have Never Been Better!

What are some of the opportunities, and threats, to an author business in today's publishing landscape?

Join Autumn and Jesper as they delve into the far corners of what it means to be an indie author and also answer that burning question: Is too late to get into indie publishing?

 

Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday. 

SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST!

Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. 

Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy.

For as little as a dollar a month, you’ll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going. 

Read the full transcript below.

(Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Narrator (2s):
You're listening to The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast in today's publishing landscape. You can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need an literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join to the best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them. Now onto the show with your hosts Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt.

Jesper (30s):
Hello. I'm Jesper. And I'm Autumn. This is episode 99 of The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast. So one episode away from number 100, before we, before we get that far, we are slowly approaching the end of 2020, and we thought that this was a good time to sort of take stock of the indie publishing landscape. What are some of the opportunities and threats maybe to an Author business here towards the end of 2020 and reaching into 2021. So I'm looking forward to this conversation, but first I'd have to say all of them, just to imagine that by next week we released a podcast episode for 100 Mondays in a row.

Autumn (1m 15s):
That's just amazing. I can't believe we had a a hundred that's. That is something to celebrate, especially in 2020, when it seems like just one, do you need a reason to celebrate? And I just, maybe we shouldn't jinx it because we have yet to record it. So I'm just going to calm down and just make sure it really happens. I'll be happy that, yeah, but it's quite a bit, I think its quite an accomplishment, you know, a lot of podcasts never makes it past like 10 episodes because you know, create a thought out, very in a about the podcast and, and then after 10 episodes they realized how much work it isn't that they, they dropped it again. It happens very, very often actually.

Jesper (1m 56s):
So reaching a a hundred is it's it's a lot more and most, yes it is an, it is a really exciting, so it is going to celebrate you. But yeah, I just, I don't know how it happened and I'm just, I am glad we're doing something special and I'm looking forward to the questions that a few glimpses I've seen as the question submitted. So it's really a lot of fun. So yeah, I think so it'll be fun. It'll be fun. But at first, so how are things that we've been so busy? We had a student Q and a today we had all the stuff going on and we haven't been chatted ourselves at this time. So how are things on your side of the Atlantic now? It's it's a good, I actually spent a couple of hours yesterday, driving all kinds of stuff that we've emptied out from the attic on to the landfill.

Jesper (2m 43s):
It's a great thing to move. Yeah. Indeed. Yeah. And, Jesus, there was a lot of stuff for me, especially from the attic, you know what that is, sort of, you put this stuff up there and it feels like, well maybe we are going to use this one day and you put it up there and then you realize, well, 10 years passed and he was just sitting up. So yeah, we do have to rent a storage room though with that, that much, this is clear already. And I think we probably found the space where we can rent a storage room from him, but we haven't quite worked out how big a room we need yet. So we will figure that out. Yeah.

Autumn (3m 23s):
That you don't want to give something to a small, but if you are selling to big when you're just paying for extra room, but I'd have to admit having lived out of storage units, it seems like the last few years, since we sold the house and started traveling that the more having space and having like Iles and things labeled, it's kind of worth the extra money at times. If you think you have to be accessing that for more than a couple months, right.

Jesper (3m 50s):
It's just the organizer and you love doing that. Right.

Autumn (3m 55s):
That's the key. And then having everyone in your family honoring the honor, the organizational system and not just going in there and taking something out and not telling anyone and not crossing it off the list and you'll never see it again ever.

Jesper (4m 10s):
Yeah. But other than that, I don't know. I mean, it's, it's, I don't know if there's much else to say it, to be honest. I know I've just tackling the things on the to-do list earlier today. I was a proof listening to the audio book version of our short guy on a developing story ideas.

Autumn (4m 24s):
Well, that's exciting. Yeah,

Jesper (4m 26s):
That was pretty good to, I mean the, the Narrator is really good. I like his voice. So I just have like two chapters left to proofread a fantastic lesson, I guess it was called Yeah so yeah, once that's done, then I'll put it into post production and we just have to wait until the audio books right now.

Autumn (4m 47s):
That's fantastic. I can't wait. Yes. I really liked his voice. He was very, he has such a very smooth and energetic Voice, which is perfect for a non-fiction. You don't want someone who sounds like, you know, your nightmare is of third grade English, so he's really good.

Jesper (5m 2s):
No, no, yeah, yeah. I think he's good. Yeah. That's a good, so, but how about you?

Autumn (5m 8s):
Oh, it's been, we've both been so busy. I swear. We get so many things done off of our list, but then it was just piles on So after a huge week of finishing up format's for other people and Fantasy maps for people. I have this deadline to finish it by the end of October, which is right. We were just in early November. So my deadline was two finish the third book of the tinted phase that I had been writing and I was down to it. I had to write a chapter a day to do it and I did, I beat up by one day. So I was so excited. I am still on track to hopefully release the first book or the next book. It'll be a book to cause the book ones out, but book two in the series at the end of February.

Autumn (5m 51s):
So that is good. And I had an audio book finished by my audio book Narrator and that's on my postapocalyptic series So and he's just he's he was getting movie roles and play's, and he's got all of this stuff going on so that he's, I don't know, we're sticking with each other. I'm like his number one favorite author. And he was my number one favorite narrator. So we are, we are wed for the whole series and he is on to the final book and that one so I can wait. Yeah, I know you were even though

Jesper (6m 22s):
Speculating to see if it could get him on the podcast right now.

Autumn (6m 24s):
Oh yes. We, we have agree that we have to set up a date, but a literally a date, but I think it'll be our first time chatting, chatting on air. So it'll be a lot of fun, but I thought he would be great to have him and get some perspectives of, you know, what you would look for a What audio book. Narrator his are looking for when they are getting a script ready to record it. So I can not wait to have Brian join me on the podcast for an interview.

Jesper (6m 49s):
Yeah. Yeah. Well that will probably be the end of January or something like that. So just to have to be patient that they will get there. Yes, we will.

Narrator (7m 2s):
Oh, a week on the internet with The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast

Jesper (7m 6s):
Well, first of all, a huge shout out and thank you to Ruth Molina pronounced that. Right. At least I hope that I did it better than when I forced you to pronounce it. Serve.

Autumn (7m 18s):
Yeah. Cause I was going to say, I think you probably got a little bit closer than I did with that one too. So I think at at least Ruth were pretty sure of your first name. So thank you for joining us on Patrion. Yeah.

Jesper (7m 31s):
Yeah. We are so happy to have you on board and it, it is truly the patrons support that keeps this Podcast going. So as you've noticed, we have no sponsors and we have no commercials on this podcast feed, but it's only possible to keep it this way, long term if we have people signing up on Patrion. So the listener, so if you haven't checked it out yet, just to spend two minutes to follow the link in the show notes and take a look at all the cooler words that we give to support us, there might be something that you like. And to be honest, just to a dollar a month, that's help us out.

Autumn (8m 6s):
Absolutely. It, it keeps the internet lights on at least four, the podcast. And we definitely can not complain about that. It's wonderful to have SUPPORT because yeah, like you said, otherwise, I don't know. It, it would be, I don't want to have commercials. I've never liked the commercials. Oh this is not good.

Jesper (8m 24s):
Yeah. Sometimes I think some for Podcast ends up being forced to have commercials to, to fund the endeavor, but it, it would be nice not to have to do that at some point in the future. So yeah. Please, sir. Check out patron if you haven't done. So, and then one more thing. I, I know it's like a best practice to never include water in one call to action, but I'm thinking maybe I could break that rule there. This one.

Autumn (8m 47s):
All right. Just this one time. We'll let you,

Jesper (8m 51s):
I just wanted to mention that the ratings and reviews helps other to find our podcast. And why is that? Well, just like on Amazon, the algorithm's that suggest new podcasts to listeners, they will focus on the podcast with many ratings and reviews. So if you haven't done so already, please take a moment to rate and possibly also leave a review for our podcast. It should only take your moment, but if all our listeners would be willing to do so that would make quite a difference. And I can't tell you exactly where to click and so on because it all depends on what app you're using and, but it should really not be complicated. So yeah, if you don't mind spending probably like 30 seconds to leave a rating, please do so.

Autumn (9m 36s):
Oh yes, we would appreciate it. We're all Authors here. We know how important those reviews are on book. So it's very similar with podcasts. So if you could let people know what you think, why do you like it? And if it's helped you, the Hank, you though it would be so fantastic and we would appreciate it.

Jesper (9m 54s):
Yeah, absolutely.

Autumn (9m 56s):
And then I had new, as I thought, Oh, this is sort of a lead into something else. We've got cooking in one of the reason we're both so busy besides everything else we've got going on. But I asked him one of my newsletters, a survey question about book-length, you know, I wanted to know I'd seen, so Author is putting out these like little kind of Fantasy shorts. And so I wouldn't ask my readers, Hey, is this something you would like? And yes, how many said it is something that they would think would be interesting having these shorter books, 80% you you've looked in my emails having, you know, but that is almost dead on it.

Autumn (10m 36s):
It was 82%. Yes. So that they wouldn't mind some shorter or like a standalone story. So I thought that was so interesting, but what I think is really cool is that this is why having a newsletter is so exceptional. I don't have to sit here and wonder why I asked my readers and you know, we actually have this chorus we've been working on that. You know, it could help out some Authors figure out what to do with your email list. So what are some more news about that coming up soon, soon? Yeah.

Jesper (11m 8s):
Ah, yeah, we will, for sure. But I'm also thinking isn't it kind of, well, a bit obvious. I mean, it's your readers, right? So if you ask them, would you be interesting to have a bit of, you know, some shorter stories as well? Why wouldn't they always say yes,

Autumn (11m 25s):
It was interesting because the way I have the question broken up his like, do you always think there should be a full length? Should they always be a series? They had a couple of options. And so it was interesting to see you, there was a few people who came back and like, it doesn't have to be a series, but it has to be full length. And there are some very strong opinions on this. So it was really, it was a great chance to interact with them, but know, not everyone's like, Oh, I just write more books there. They have specifics. They really do like, and then

Narrator (11m 54s):
On to today's topic.

Jesper (11m 57s):
So I think this is going to be a more of a conversation probably Yeah and we'll see if we have the same views on the industry, as it stands as usual, we have not coordinated hour our line of thinking here at All. So, but I guess we like it that way. It is, it makes it more interesting. It doesn't, it,

Autumn (12m 17s):
It does. Yes. And this is one of those ones where I checked my checklist and what we were doing today while making breakfast, saw the topic and then they didn't think of anything else about it until after the student Q and a, when I did a DoubleCheck saying that it really was the topic today. Right. So you don't have to, I didn't need to do a homework. Did I? So I think, yes, we will have, so we'll have to see if our opinions differ, but both of us being published Authors, I'd be shocked if we were like, no, don't do it. So I think we're pretty much at least on a very similar vein That yeah, yeah. I mean the, there was, no,

Jesper (12m 55s):
It is a bit of a different, Episode this one in the sense that it is not like a list, you can go down and say, okay, this and this and this it's much more like we, we could go into all kinds of directions. So with this definitely M and I think if we are looking at the publishing market as a whole, and sort of just trying to see if we can focus on the point where we can say these are maybe the trends we're seeing and also what are some of the challenges and so on. But I, I think a good place and I could start us out, maybe. Sure. It would be to mention that the possibilities and the tools we have available today in order to publish our work on Amazon, Kobo, Google, and all the other online retailers, I mean the, the market or the PO possibilities we have, it is only about 10 years old.

Jesper (13m 49s):
You know, think about that. And the fact that you are listening to this podcast, trying to educate yourself every week, that probably puts the listener into the 1% percentile, to be honest. I mean, most authors don't do that. And while more than 1% probably knows how to publish their work on line. I honestly don't think that I'm mistaking in saying that there is a lot less people who knows about this indie publishing stuff that you think, Oh yeah, I know

Autumn (14m 20s):
I will. I mean, having, I seem to often end up formatting books or doing book covers to new authors and it becomes more of a coaching session on, Oh, don't forget you need the keywords, the keywords, what do you mean keywords or categories? And why do I need to worry about this in that? And so, yeah, theirs, it's not a, you know, intuitive. I think it's amazing the information that's out there, but I think we've gone from the early days of self publishing. I mean, I started in 2012, eight years ago now. And then there was no information because it was so new, no one knew what they were doing. And now, you know, eight years later there is so much information and some of its wrong and some of it's outdated and some of it's just assumed.

Autumn (15m 9s):
And so that's the other side is then you're just wondering, Please just someone or consolidate all of this and to something I can actually, the one I trust in to give me the step-by-steps. So that's the difficulty is I think of doing it now. I mean, back in 2012, I love calling it the wild West days of self publishing because what is it? Stephen King started this basically, I think it was 2010 when he released a novella a a hundred percent online and crashed the server. Of course it was Stephen King, but he kicked us off and yeah, two or three years later, Amazon had less than a million books. When I first released mine.

Autumn (15m 48s):
I mean, getting thousands of downloads, especially if you offered it for free, like a Kindle free day, you know, those five days free, if you are in KDP select, it was easy. Now it's a lot harder, but the tools, I mean, we didn't have vellum or are these wonderful formatters and some of the cover's now, I mean, the, the covers these days were rival or do better than the traditional publishers. You go on Amazon and the covers are just absolutely amazing. It has gone from trying to mimic a printed paperback that a traditional publisher would put out to doing stuff that only is done online. I, I am waiting a year or two from now. There will be moving covers.

Autumn (16m 28s):
I've been told that they're our video cover's and stuff, but they are not, they're not available. Let's get on Amazon. Thank goodness. Being a graphic artist. I do not want to go there, but if we have to, I will learn. But it's, the covers are just fantastic and they are made, they can be printed, but they really, the colors are just, they're designed to have the light and the video screen behind them. And it's so fantastic. And the book's look gorgeous. And Yeah, I remember, I remember it. Well, when you uploaded your first book, was it in word? And did you even have the hot link to a table of contents, right?

Jesper (17m 6s):
Yeah. Yeah. It was a Scribner extract. And then I had, well, I was trying to look into how to do with myself and indeed there was no, I am not on Mac Ida, so I did not have any developer or anything. So I actually just bought the service from somebody else. I just sent them, they were Scrivener files and say format this stuff. And then they did. So I just paid my way out of it.

Autumn (17m 30s):
That works. But yeah, that was my first one was just word. And I don't think it was hotlinked. I mean, no one talked about that in 2012 now it's like, you need to have these things done or Amazon might not even let your book in a row.

Jesper (17m 46s):
Yeah. But, but also thinking about the stuff that people are talking about, as you say, you know, I think that a lot of us, we live inside this little information or a bubble here because, and what I mean by that is I mentioned the one percentile before, right? If you are listening to this, you are in a very small sliver of the entire Author population, meaning that we are, I think we often assume that every Author knows all of the stuff that we were talking about here, but they don't. I think like maybe 90% of our authors will not know all of that.

Jesper (18m 28s):
Well, of course. Okay. Lets say a lot of authors will know how to put this on Amazon and so on, but there's also a huge, so let's say population, Oh, out of those who does not know all the details about, Oh, are you okay? You can, or you can use KDP rocket, apparently two research keywords. Okay. They didn't know that this stuff you just mentioned about cover the signs and where that is going. They didn't know that, you know, that I think there is a lot of things that, because we live, we are sort of tapped into things and I'm talking about the listeners here as well. Right. Because they listen to podcasts and they educate themselves. It is so easy to start thinking that he is in 2020.

Jesper (19m 8s):
Well, everybody knows this stuff, but honestly, no, I don't think so.

Autumn (19m 11s):
No, no, I don't think so. Yeah. I mean, I have been surprised I have joined some promos with other authors and one of them, I went to look up in her books and her name was listed differently on different books so that she has like five different Author pages. So it was just like, wow. You know, the organizational side of me just like it went belly up and pass it out. But I, again, it's little stuff. If you don't realize how all of the stuff that links together, if your not intuitive, maybe with computers to see how all that metadata works, then you might end up with something like that. So easily, I actually had that in good reads.

Autumn (19m 51s):
It turned out their was whether or not my middle name had a period or a space. I was missing books on good reads. And I didn't even know it until I'm a friendly library and help me out. And I suddenly went from like three pages of books to five or six and it was just like, Oh, I found six more books. And I'm like, Oh my goodness. Where do they come from? But if one little thing, one period was off, you might not have all your books. If you don't go in and claim them and find them and link everything.

Jesper (20m 22s):
No, but, but that's the thing. I mean, because there is so many tools and possibilities available, there's also so many things to keep track of and learn. And that's something I think in, in today's market, you have to be mindful. I mean, it's not only Authors. I mean, if your looking at the reader's as well, we are not even close to a mature market. It comes to the consumption of eBooks. For example, not even close, it was so many places in the world where e-books is, that's not that common. A and there is even places where you can even get it at Amazon. Maybe don't even have a storefront in those countries yet.

Jesper (21m 6s):
So there is so much, let's say two KM in the future. Yes. And Again also here. I think maybe we're living inside a bit of an information bubble here. Where are we just assuming that well, if we, if I'm going into publishing now here in 2020, I'm already way too late to the party, you know, the other side of the 10 years ago and I'm way behind. But honestly I don't think so. No, I think it's, it's your still in the early days of it. Yes.

Autumn (21m 40s):
I think we're still in the early days, I think it would helps to listen to podcasts like this, you know, learn your information before releasing, but it's never too late. You can have a series out, you could have written 10 books and, and then you can find us and start listening and get your marketing down or get whatever missing piece you have. But Cause, I do. I think there are authors who are launching series sometimes right out of the gate. And I'm like, wow, I wish I had been that put together back in 2012. I would love to have not learned everything the hard way, but at least I help people now, so they don't have to, but that's, that's still, it still possible people or releasing books, whether it's they're first series, whether it's they're fourth series and they are doing it well, there are hitting the numbers or getting the best seller tag's there doing phenomenal.

Autumn (22m 27s):
And you could do that now. Or even though they're our, I mean, I, there is just Rumours now, isn't it. And no one really knows how many books are on Amazon. It's not like the old days where you could actually just go click in the corner and you would actually see the number of eBooks listed. Yeah. Not that easy.

Jesper (22m 43s):
Do you think it was? No, I think it was in 2018 that Amazon stopped making it public information, but the common comments let's let me see, come in a group. Do you call it, call it a common agreement? I don't know But but like the general consensus, I guess that's more, what I'm trying to say is that a at the moment e-books on Amazon seems to be growing by about a million a year. And I think the latest, well, it's only assumptions of course, because nobody knows the true numbers of since a couple of years ago, when Amazon started a publisher, I'm making a promise that information public available.

Jesper (23m 25s):
But I think the last number I saw was about 8 million. Wow. And, and then growing by a million a year or so

Autumn (23m 32s):
10 or 11. Yeah. It's a lot of books. It is, it is definitely harder to release something to be immediately seen unless you have all those ducks in a row, but you can still find readers', you can still build a career out of this. And it's unlike, I know I'd rather be doing this now, then, you know, even 50 years ago were you had to go through the traditional publishers and you were vetted and agents. And I understand the perception that the people who do get angel agents are like better writers and everything, but I don't think so. I think they're more marketable. I think the, you know, the traditional publishers, they want to, they're putting a lot of money into an author.

Autumn (24m 16s):
So they want an author who is going to be marketable and make the money. That doesn't mean they're necessarily better writers or have a better story. They just have a better selling point. So there's nothing wrong with you going and trying and writing and EF you will find fans, you will find people who love what you've. Right. And that is awesome, right?

Jesper (24m 37s):
Yeah. For sure that there was a point around this quality of the work, right. With the gatekeepers as it were.

Autumn (24m 45s):
That was it. Well,

Jesper (24m 47s):
Yeah. I mean, at least they would, they would sort of weed out the, the bad stuff first. And then even once you got past the gatekeepers, the traditional publishing, the editing that you are getting, this is first of all, a very, very professional and you are getting many rounds of editing. So finding, for example, a spelling error in a traditional, a published book is it's very rare. Did you find anything? A whereas of course you can say that you could do the same thing as an indie author, but it, it costs a lot of money. If you have to hire like six different editors, I'm like, well, how many pads they do? They do a lot of past us in traditional publishing to make sure that there are no errors.

Jesper (25m 29s):
So at least to that extent, there is a difference. But I also feel like the fact that there is no gatekeepers. I think that's good. I don't like this gate-keeper thing to have somebody sits down the axis. What is publishable and what is not, I think that's wrong. Let the market decide what they want to buy and then what happens Today right. So we just decide what they are buying and what they are not buying that. So it's that simple. But of course it does put a lot of responsibility on the Author to ensure that you are stories and your writing is as good as it can be.

Autumn (26m 2s):
Absolutely. And I mean, that's, to me what gatekeepers, I think people forget it. Wasn't just quality that they were keeping a hold of them are keeping a hold of traditions and not letting people or stories through that. They thought were either not marketable or they didn't want to see so minorities and women or whatever it was. If you hit the wrong person in the wrong publishing house, you would never get to see the light of day now you've you want to find a book on anything it's out there and you can find it and you can write it. But yes, just because you have a voice, you should work on the quality issue, you should do your best to run through an editor.

Autumn (26m 46s):
You to make sure that it's the especially now formatting. I mean, you'll get rejected. I actually kind of like Amazon has gone through, and now they spell check your manuscript as you are uploading it. And if you have any errors, they will come back and they will say, Hey, you know, fix this. Or you can't, you can't change anything in a way that basically locks your book in the dashboard. And so on until you say yes, fix it. Or no, my last name really is spelled that way because I get an error. Not anymore. They finally figured out what my last name is, but I was always, they wanted to change it to a Brit instead of Burt. And so I was getting like, every time I had my name, please let us know, go fix your spelling error.

Autumn (27m 28s):
So a little issues, but decided that I think that's a great every once in a while they are, I still get one or two, like, Hey, is this a correct word? Is that yes, I made it up. It's really spelled that way, but it's good. They are paying attention. And that is helping move up the quality so that the books who don't have the spellchecks and stuff we'll be held back.

Jesper (27m 49s):
Yeah. I thought I have one downside of there not being any gate-keepers to be honest. Oh yeah. Yeah. Because, because there is no gatekeepers anymore because we are talking about those 8 million e-books on Amazon misability is really the biggest issue that we have here in 2021 and going forward as well. And to be honest, I would say that it's probably only going to get worse and, and that's probably, you know, what people want to. But I have said before that this has become a pay to play market. And I think that right now we are very much depending on advertising to get our work in front of readers.

Jesper (28m 37s):
And that said, And I well, I will be just discussing this much more than the self-publishing success costs that we will put out for free and the near future. You more about that in another episode, coming in the near future as, as well. But my point is just that poring more and more money into advertising. That's sort of a downward spiral, isn't it? That's not sustainable. No, no. And that's where we are heading. More and more authors are getting on to the advertising platforms. They're pouring more and more money in. If you're looking at The a bitch for keywords on the Amazon ads, they are only going up. It is getting more and more expensive. Even traditional publishing companies are getting into those are the advertising places now, and they are just pouring money into it.

Jesper (29m 21s):
So it's, and we sell, trying to sell like a $5 a year, a book or whatever you price it is. But it, it does not take very much purpose in terms of costs before it is not worth it anymore. So that's the main concern I think. And I believe that, and this is a way where you and I are focusing Autumn, but I believe that it is much more important to spend your time and also probably the majority of your money and trying to find your 1000 true fans and get them onto your email list.

Autumn (29m 57s):
Yes, I agree. That's what I see with so many things is I, I wonder what the next step, I mean, goodness knows if I'll see if anyone comes up with the next step of what is beyond for eBooks, you know how to readers can find them because everyone talks about good reads, not being the best. It could be an Amazon is not doing anything to make it better. Amazon's were, you know, I just asked another survey question to my newsletter saying, where do you buy books? Because I want to know when I release my next series, should I keep it? Why does it on Amazon? And you're not going to scattering everywhere, but most still go to Amazon. They go to Amazon, just even like, even if they have a Barnes and Nobles, you know, and now they're going on Amazon 'cause the search engine has fantastic, but I still I depending on how things go with the U S elections and the future.

Autumn (30m 45s):
I mean, I don't know if Amazon is going to be able to stay as one massive entity and what's going to happen if it crumbles or if it changes we're going to eventually eBooks might have to expand beyond Amazon or what, what happens when they get 20 million books? I mean, terrace is a server space. Unlimited is there are going to be restrictions, which will just spot on the side sites almost instantly. Uhh, that, Hey, if you actually like, Fantasy go to this place instead of here, because you're going to find more Fantasy Authors over there. It could happen. We don't know, but I don't think eBooks are going away. I, I have so many people in my family who were like, I need to read it on paper and you know, like a year or two later they see like a Kindle Paperwhite.

Autumn (31m 30s):
And they're like, I only read it on my Kindle Paperwhite. So right now people like paperbacks, but there are starting to see, even though the traditional ones that are starting to like Kindle's Or ebook readers or whatever, they are going to find comfortable. And there are only going to get better, a ways of being able to read and have that textual experience that sort of like a book. So the future is going to be kind of exciting, I think. Yeah.

Jesper (31m 55s):
Yeah. And also the fact that eBooks are gaining ground, you know, it, it's also part of, because it is cheaper than ever before to publish a book, the enemy that's a good thing. Or, you know, things like cover's and editing that's shouldn't be skipped upon. No. And I guess that ties into the point that we were making before about the quality we did actually discuss the cost of producing a novel and what we suggest that you should focus on if you are on a budget in episode 64. So if you are in and out, you can go back and listen to that one. But I do think it is extremely cheap to produce a novel, not in terms of time, in terms of actual dollars, then it, especially that one, everyone's

Autumn (32m 41s):
Got a story of there. First one, because if you count from concept to finally publishing it and that's a, usually a three to five year Odyssey, it gets better after that. I promise. I promise. Okay. So let's talk about the first one, but yes, it is definitely a, time-wise not the easiest pursuit, but Hey, once you sell one, it's not like a painting where you'll only ever sell one, You sell it again and again and again, and you get to talk to people about it and its, it becomes a thing that you get fan art. So it's always fun, but it's definitely, it is cheaper. I mean I think publishing, if you look into entrepreneurial magazines and things or self publishing is one of the cheapest businesses as a startup cost because yeah, you need somebody to write it on like a laptop, which most people have.

Autumn (33m 29s):
I've written on my iPad with this external keyboard. I think this is not a huge expensive set up, but you do need the book covers and the editing. And if you don't know how to do the formatting, the formatting, but you know, Again listen to episode 64, you will get an idea of what your looking at it for Price's and the range of prices. And with that, you could have a book up and then you have the ads marketing. And that is definitely right now the crunch point. And that's why I do think that that is 2020 was definitely 2019 and 2020. Where in the year of, you know, you, everyone was getting into AMS as all of the big helpers and courses that are targeting Authors of things to learn were talking about even, I mean, Facebook ads are still there, but they were really looking at AMS ads.

Autumn (34m 17s):
Now that is getting tight BookBub ads are hard to really get some traction, good reads got rid of their ads. It's the finding visibility is definitely the nugget that someone is looking to crack right now. And someone is going to crack it. There is going to be the next generation and guaranteed versus the asteroid hitting the earth in 2020, because we're not at the end of the year yet it could happen, but that's just, that's assume that all make it to 2021. Something is going to change and they are going to figure out a way of hooking up readers with great Authors and that's going to be really a game changer because there is enough readers out there to keep Authors busy readers, especially serial readers reading.

Autumn (35m 1s):
It has not gone away. Thank you JK. Rowling's for raising an entire generation of mad FANTASY readers. We love it. Fantastic. People are reading crazily. It hasn't gone away. Everyone, every generation they say people are not reading. I'm sorry. There is a whole industry devoted to readers and to writers, feeding readers is so this is not, it's never too late. It's not going away. If you want to write and it's in your blood and you like telling stories, give it a whirl. It's a lot of fun. It was, there is the tough parts, but you'll find some people.

Autumn (35m 41s):
Yeah. And I think,

Jesper (35m 42s):
I think part of what you were saying, there is also, I think it's important to be adaptable in this landscape that we are entering here. And as, as we head into 2021, it's probably an increasingly important skillset to be honest, because you have to be willing to spend the time to pay attention to what is working for other authors and then adapt your marketing efforts when necessary, because you can go on out of the taste where you could just upload your book to Amazon and put it in some keywords and Yeah well on Amazon takes over on your cell or a ton of books. You, you could do that 10 years ago, but that's not possible anymore.

Jesper (36m 22s):
And now I'd probably even go further than that and say that some of the marketing tips and tricks that used to work still circulates around the internet and you will come across it once you started looking for tips and tricks to do this and that. But a lot of them has actually lost a lot of the effectiveness. Oh yeah. We talked about the Permafree book one in the past. Episode didn't we? Yes, we have this sort of, this sort of the same thing. So I think it's important to not that you have to listen to us if you don't want to just listening to podcast in general on this topic and try to educate and see what people are saying, what can you pick up in and what do we need to adapt in your own approach?

Jesper (37m 4s):
I think that becomes increasingly important as we head into 2021, because just keep you doing the same thing, then we're back to the downward spiral that I mentioned before, where you can keep pouring money into ad. But yeah, that might work for a while. And of course it depends on how deep your pockets are, but at the end of the day, it's not going to work forever.

Autumn (37m 23s):
No, and even I do worry about newsletters. I mean, it is the number one way of building a relationship with readers. You do want to find those a thousand true fans 'cause they will, they will build your career. They will be your foundation, but joining a lot of books, book, funnel promo's and stuff where, you know, readers are getting, if they go, if you get readers who are serial readers and they're going through these promos and they are getting on a whole bunch of people's mailing lists, it's saturation. I mean, who doesn't have email saturation now. So you need to make your newsletters concise and important and clear and fun and engaging. I mean, it's, it's like writing a book and you have to do that regularly. So you attract your readers or are you have to have a set-up so that they know who you are.

Autumn (38m 6s):
And so when you send your email and you have this new book release that they, they go out and they are still interested because whether you write every book every two months or two years, we need to grow, keep those readers. And you have to have a way of connecting with you and staying in tune to the journey and that's important. But again, it comes down to what if readers are hitting a saturation point with newsletters? I mean, I, I know, I think once a month I go through and unsubscribe sprit, and I'm got too many emails coming every day. So these are the, there are no worries I have, but I also think that we will, will find a step around the will find the next thing.

Autumn (38m 47s):
But like you were saying, you have to stay on the pulse of this and not the pulse of a couple years ago, but the pulse now, what are people chatting about? What are the Authors chatting about? Where are your reader's finding you now go and hang out with your readers, make sure you are going there and not just talking to other authors because the whole point is you have readers. So go find them as well as talking to the other. Authors is a lot of stuff to stand on top of it. But if you love those, it's, it's not exactly like dreary or are not reading the current news stories, which trust me, I don't want to go there.

Jesper (39m 25s):
I don't share your concern about the newsletter to be honest, I still think, and I don't see it going away either that it is the best way to interact with readers because you get in the inbox and of course it is true what you said, you know, that it didn't realize it on you to make those emails interesting enough that they keep being invested in what you have to say. But I still don't think that there was anything out there that we will beat the newsletter any time soon. But yeah, but on the other hand as well, and I'm wondering what you think about this one, but there's probably something to be said about how well, the necessity of having multiple streams of income.

Jesper (40m 4s):
I'm not sure, but I think it might be a must for financial stability going forward. What do you think about that?

Autumn (40m 14s):
I'm still torn. There's part of me who wishes. I had focused a lot heavier. Like I had just gone 110% into writing books and writing them faster and better and getting the marketing down like four years ago when I left my full-time job. But instead part of the reason I left was I was developing courses and Am Writing Fantasy and in this podcast we would come out of it. And I think so I think I have maybe my eggs in separated into two, many different baskets, than I can sometimes manage well.

Jesper (40m 46s):
I didn't say you couldn't have too many.

Autumn (40m 48s):
No, I definitely, I think you can have too many, but I do think that if you can set up a few in automation, if you, if you can flex yourself to have a lot of different things, I think it is a good thing. If it's in your nature, I was just on a friend's entrepreneurial podcast. And we got into talking about that, that if you're naturally inclined to lots of different things, you're probably gonna get into lots of different things and it's better to embrace it and organize it from the get go, then try to make yourself focus on one thing and grow to hate it. So yeah, I think there are ways of branching out and doing it, but I also see some authors who are literally, they're doing a book every two months, which means they are writing like 10,000 words a day, plus the editing plus the plotting, getting the cover's and is that is all they can, that is all that it can fit on their plate and they are doing just fine.

Autumn (41m 37s):
And I think that if you can find enough fans and you were writing well enough, you could, you can totally have that as a model and run with that. But if you are someone who likes to branch out and have a few other things, you can also, you know, get that to work as well and have a more stable platform because you know, some of those authors who are doing a book every two months and stuff, they are Katie piece select. And I think that's a great because it's working for them and there's times I'm like, darn, that is so they make it look so easy. I'm envious because I always do everything the hard way, but I can't give it all at one place. I just can't do it.

Jesper (42m 18s):
No, but that was exactly my thinking as well. That a lot of those who have that kind of success is because they are in control and limited, which I guess it is fine. But if we are talking about financial stability long term, I don't think that's a stable platform, nothing against putting books in, in Kindle unlimited so far. So, I mean, we have a plan to do that for future books as well. But the thing is, if you have all kinds of other things in other places as well, then yes, maybe Amazon will change something in a year or two or three years from now. But if you have incomes from other streams, then you are much more stable. And where are some of those things that you mentioned there, there are a a hundred percent reliant on the income from Kindle unlimited, which is, I would be a bit scared about

Autumn (43m 3s):
I would be too, just because like I mentioned, I mean, there's a lot of rumbling in the U S about breaking up Amazon and, you know, they might just end up having divest good reads or divest ACX or something. Are there other things that they have purchased, but what if they decide to divest something with their books? What do they break that up a little bit, even though we don't know what the future is. And so I, and I do imagine at some point, like I said, the server space can only grow. So big books looks to make a lot of money, but I don't think they are making as much as some of the other stuff on Amazon. So if they decided that, you know, there are going to have limited space, again, people on the books will not go away.

Autumn (43m 43s):
There will just be pop-up cites that are starting to compete with Amazon for certain genres are such. And that will be exciting to me, but that's also because of not on a Kindle unlimited. So I wouldn't be like, yes, I am going there or not. Oh gosh. I had to rebuild everything. I'm already, I'm already everywhere. It'll be so hard to pull my tentacles out. It'd be just horrible. Yeah.

Jesper (44m 6s):
Yeah. No, no, no, no. That's true. But and the thing is also that if it was just on that point about Amazon, as you mentioned, right. If we look at the yearly revenue from Amazon and I don't know the exact numbers because I have looked into it. So now I am getting a bit, yeah, I'll be honest about that. But book sale ebook sales out of Amazon is total revenue. It's probably less than 1% if I'm really, really, really like positive and upbeat here. And let's say is 2% of Amazon's total revenue, but is something like that? It's, it's like nothing that they probably won't even notice it if they stopped selling eBooks,

Autumn (44m 49s):
Probably that's kind of scary. Yeah.

Jesper (44m 51s):
And that's the scary, but I actually have not done well. We have to have some good and some bad ones, but I have one more joke in the pot here.

Autumn (44m 58s):
All right, let's go for it. Or something.

Jesper (45m 0s):
Something that might disrupt the market in ways that we haven't even thought about. Can you guess what that might be?

Autumn (45m 7s):
It's a solar flare. No, no, no. I have no idea AI. Oh yeah. That's true. I all right. I'm going to be sticking to solar flare. Yeah. So are you using the AI for writing the books or AI for helping to prepare readers and writers?

Jesper (45m 29s):
Well, we have already seen examples of AI producing books. It's not right.

Autumn (45m 38s):
Wonderful. Yeah.

Jesper (45m 38s):
Right. But if you're looking at the speed in which this develops and And in the speed at AIT system, sales is incredible. You know, just like two years ago, they couldn't do anything and now they can write a crappy books, but they can write books a week. Where will they be in two years from now or five years from now, which is going to be a completely different landscape. But I don't know, personally, I don't think that AI will replace Authors within the next five, 10 years. I don't think so. Of course. I don't know. But I do think that we need to be really curious about technology and that's why I talked about add a bit, you know, to be adaptable before.

Jesper (46m 19s):
Yeah. Because this is one of the areas where I think that most Authors, this is a blind spot, you know, we, we try to sort of ignore the fact that there was AI technology coming in there instead of embracing it and looking into how can we perhaps integrate AI into our Author businesses so that we can work alongside AI is basically having them help us in doing some of the work on it. I don't know how to do that yet, but I'm just saying that moving forward into the next decade, technology is going to get better and better and better. And I think we have to find ways in order to leverage this technology. And I think that the authors who will do that successfully, they we'll get an advantage.

Jesper (47m 3s):
They will come out on top. So that's something to think about. Oh

Autumn (47m 8s):
I think that's a very, very good point and definitely something worth thinking about, and really looking ahead, not just wondering, I'm just keeping your pulse on today's market, but you know, really projecting into where is this all going? And yeah, I can see AI is being an important part. I mean, there are so many books they are looking at, Oh, now I can't even remember the term, but altered reality, you know, looking into these books where there's like three links and visuals and for mental reality, augmented reality. Thank you. And there are a few people who, who are trying to tie new music too. The reading experience, which I am kind of, I had to say, I'm kind of glad they didn't go anywhere, but it was just disruptive to me, but people are trying to do other things with books.

Autumn (47m 54s):
So yeah. Things are going to be, there will always be someone cutting edge and going a little bit further. And it will be interesting to see where it goes because stories, I know stories or are not going to go away. No, indeed. So I think right now is a great time to get started.

Jesper (48m 13s):
There is no way of knowing for sure, but I would state of course, with no scientific data behind this tool to backup my claim. But I would say that the next let's say 10 years is a window of opportunity for Authors to build themselves in a career in writing in a market that continues to grow because many readers haven't even discovered the possibility to buy a Kindle and download our ebook ship, especially for those listening in the U S and that's the majority of You. I think it's important that you don't assume that the level of market penetration that you see with Kindle and eBooks is the same everywhere else, because it's not, no, no, no.

Jesper (48m 54s):
Here in the Nordics where I live, for instance, there are those who read eBooks, but its not a mature product at all. Wow. I think most of those who do read eBooks here in this part of the world, many of them do through the library system where you can beat eBooks, but actually going onto Amazon and buying an ebook themselves. That's quite foreign to most people hear that, that they are not used to it. So there is one of those information bubbles here again, when I think you were in the U S might assume that this is just normal, this is how it is, but it's not. So think about that as well as the market will mature over the next decade and it, as it does the possibility to find new readers will as well.

Autumn (49m 39s):
Sounds good. And I agree. No surprise there.

Jesper (49m 47s):
Okay, perfect. So next Monday it's finally time for Episode 100 and we are looking so much forward to answering your questions. So see you next Monday.

Narrator (49m 58s):
If you like, what you just heard, there is a few things you can do to support The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn and Jesper on patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast going. Stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

 

The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 98 – Top 10 Mistakes New Authors Make

There are so many things to learn and know when you start off writing. But what are the things that trip up writers the most or cause the most detriment to a new author's career?

Join us as we try to one-up each other for the worst mistake new authors make while doing our best to keep the show on track at the same time. Who do you think "won" the show?

And don't forget, this is the last chance to submit YOUR questions for our 100th Episode Q&A podcast! Add your questions and audio file to the form at https://forms.gle/KDHdPnUB5A9cwViz7 

Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday.  

SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST!

Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review.  

Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you’ll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going. 

Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Narrator (2s):
You're listening to The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast in today's publishing landscape. You can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from Writing joined two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now onto the show with your hosts Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt

Jesper (30s):
Hello Jesper

Autumn (31s):
and I'm Autumn.

Jesper (33s):
This is episode 98 of The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast. And today we are going to give You one of ours. Well, Let's call it the entertaining. There's a top 10 list where we are alternate by giving you five each. And the topic is Mistakes that amateur writers make, so this should be fun. All of them, it should be really fun. And I didn't want to see anything before we actually started the recording, but do you know how easy it was to come up with topics for this one?

Autumn (1m 4s):
We have 'em in video two as a starter kit. This kit has the ten reasons new authors fail. I may have changed.

Jesper (1m 14s):
And you needed, is that what you're saying?

Autumn (1m 16s):
No, I was, I was really proactive and I happened to have to come up with this list are about two or three years ago.

Jesper (1m 25s):
You, that sounds like cheating to me.

Autumn (1m 27s):
Would I might've edited the things around and will talk about it later. But how are things over in Denmark? I hear COVID spiking up a little bit again. Yeah, it is. It is getting a bit worse here as well, but yeah, I don't know. COVID is not an interesting job. Well, how are things otherwise you are still refereeing and everything. I'll take it and pass. And we'll Yeah that? We started to pack our stuff in boxes now and getting ready to move, buy the first week of December. Wow. We've got gotten very far yet, but I'm sure it will get there.

Jesper (2m 9s):
Will it, it will probably start to become even more stressful as time approaches, but yeah, there was nothing much to do about that other than get packing and I'll take it, try to take it hour with a sense of humor when you're like, where is Oh I pack that already. Where is that box? So that was already at the new apartment. Oh, well, I guess I'm not going to speed. Yeah. And even the police are quite busy because they are sorting through all of their old Lego to see what they want to sell and what they want to keep. So it was pretty busy with that as well. And they have a lot of Lego, so that was one of my favorite toys too, as a kid. So that's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. And in between everything that I've sort of been working on the outline for our future reader, magnet, as you said, you said that to me today.

Jesper (2m 55s):
Yeah. I can't wait to look through that. I was two, it was right before we recording when I downloaded It. So I haven't even looked at it yet, but I will look at it this week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm really looking forward to start writing some fiction again, it's been like, well, a long, long time this entire year, basically we have been focusing on our non-fiction stuff with the plodding guides that we've published earlier this year and the summer, or a slightly after summer. And then the causes that we've been really busy recording over the past few months. So it's just been a lot of nonfiction, which is great, but I am looking forward to writing some fiction. Again, I, that

Autumn (3m 35s):
I completely understand 'cause as you know what I mean, I'm full-time graphic artist and writer an Am Writing Fantasy or, and whatever else. And that's what I do. So I do, I have been sneaking in Writing, but I've recently I challenged myself because I I've created a publishing deadline and I really wanna release this series. I'm going to start releasing it and at the end of February, but that means to stay on track. I have to finish I'm on a book to out of three. I'd have to finish it by the end of October. And I am down two, a chapter a day. And I don't usually write quite that way. I can write that fast, but I have lots of other work to do too. So I usually don't give myself, I don't give myself to have much time, but I have been in, I've been keeping up with it and it's tough, but it's so it's also, so we're both task-oriented.

Autumn (4m 26s):
So to say that to cross off a whole chapter every single day for the last week has been like, Oh, this is so exciting. It's it's just four more and I will actually make the deadline. Now I have five days left at the month. I think I we'll do this. I, I think I will do it. I'll get pretty darn darn close. So I am feeling pretty good. And then I'm on to the final book of the series and I'm looking forward though, to writing our books together because we have been plotting for a year and this sounds so exciting and it'll be totally different. So I'm all about writing. The more I can write the better it is. So this will be exciting.

Jesper (5m 4s):
Yeah it? It, it, have you already edited the first book in to their, or is it, is it the first draft that you were done with now

Autumn (5m 11s):
And with the first draft I'm planning on editing in January for at least book one, I'm not going to edit all three of them. I want them all written, but I'll just edit the first one and get it. I'm going to, hopefully in December, get everything up as a preorder. And I, which means I'd have to do the cover is, and this is one of the first time, because my timeline is so tight that I'm actually so tempted to get someone else to do covers for me. But I know I'll probably break down one day in and just make my cover's. Yeah. I'll hire myself and schedule it like the best ideas probably. But yeah, it's a little bit of a crazy, but if 2021, I'm hoping to release a book every two months into different series and maybe a few stand-alones and plus we'll be writing with you.

Autumn (5m 56s):
And plus I've got little ghost writing thing on the side, and plus I'm back, I've been helping to new authors with their work. So I'm a little busy plus everyone and Am, Writing Fantasy and all the courses and all those students. And I'm up to 12 hours a day doing this, but I love it. And so much so that's, that's the most important thing, right? Is a bad day. Writing is better than a good day at my old office. So I love it here.

Jesper (6m 27s):
Oh, we can go on the internet with The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast so this one is the last reminder about the upcoming episode 100, which is going to be an ask us anything Episode. So we would love for you to submit your questions to me.

Autumn (6m 44s):
Yes. We're looking forward to it. And as we've mentioned, there's a link in the show notes. So you can go to a Google form and fill that out, and we'd really love it. If you shared an audio clip or a video, and you know, you don't have to record yourself. If you can record your feet to the window, we just went the audio file. We are not going to do anything else with it. So we just want to strip the audio and be able to have your voice on the podcast with us as you ask, Oh, or whatever crazy question you can come up with, we've already covered. I would love to hear more about you and the habits in New Zealand. So that would be on my list, but how are you going to ask about our books, our lives?

Autumn (7m 27s):
So say, you know, we probably might mention, I'll talk about my dog, but I think your kids are off the table. I think that's okay.

Jesper (7m 35s):
Okay. Well, you can ask us anything. It doesn't mean that we are going to answer anything or whatever you want me to ask for your free, and then we might edit a, whatever we feel like it will be gone that way, but that's the way it goes. So that's it, that's the power of the microphone.

Autumn (7m 52s):
You know, we could always come here. We can use, see the, the audio in and kind of, you know, learn to be polite, political and direct the question to whatever answer or we feel like a thing

Jesper (8m 4s):
Is it that was like, like the best of politicians that doesn't really Add. They don't answer the question that was asked.

Autumn (8m 11s):
You can always answer with an answer or with a question to ask you how to answer a question with a question and you know, it just keeps going on and on and on it.

Jesper (8m 18s):
Yeah, it will be. But otherwise I also feel like it's a, it's been a fairly Bishop of time in the Am Writing Fantasy Facebook group, or at least those new people joining all the time, which was awesome to see

Autumn (8m 30s):
It is. And it's been so active. I've missed out a little bit over the weekend, cause I was tied up with something else, but every time I go in there, there's always someone waiting to get in and I feel bad even in this only a couple hours, but its, we can keep up with them, but it's wonderful.

Jesper (8m 48s):
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think there is what I really like to be honest is that there was a lot of it and that not that there was a lot of engagement that is of course nice But but also that in general it is a very far in between that somebody sort of breaks the rules and Postlight self-promotion it happens so once in a while, but its actually pretty rare. It, most of the post are genuine like inspirational staff or asked for help or feedback or something like that. And there was always a lot of people pitching and I mean, I think we've got a past, a critical mass in the group in that there's always a lot of responses when people post Whitsett.

Jesper (9m 28s):
I like to see a Yeah

Autumn (9m 30s):
Right and some good responses Yeah there chatting You Hello

Jesper (9m 35s):
Yeah. 'cause if we go back like one and a half, two years as much as a bit more quiet in there. And I think there was just wasn't enough people, but we are sort of getting to a stage now where there's enough people in there where you're going to get a response or most, I wouldn't say guaranteed, but almost guaranteed. If you ask a question and there was, somebody will make a very insightful response for you. So, so that was great.

Autumn (10m 1s):
I don't know if you're on Facebook or if you're on Facebook, come join us on Am Writing Fantasy and a promise I'll try to get in there a little more often.

4 (10m 15s):
All right. So

Jesper (10m 19s):
I think actually the first of all, at least when I look down at my list here, yes. I think I'd have to say for a start that the listeners probably know some of what I'm going to share already. I'm at least if there are a bit experienced with Writing, if they are all new to riding then maybe not. I don't know. Probably they are, the listener will know some of it, but they are all things, at least on my list here that can improve your writing and also help to make it read more professional. So I guess the listener can use our top 10 here as sort of a checklist to see if they are on track with everything. If they already know it, then they could sort of be happy with checking off and say, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have it under control.

Jesper (11m 5s):
Or you can also feel good at the things that you are maybe not doing in the sense that it will give you a few opportunities where you can approve upon your writing.

Autumn (11m 15s):
I actually all joking aside about the starter kit and actually is not joking. The second video really is 10 reasons new writers fail. But I thought about it. I almost sent you an email earlier today saying you should I focus on things? I see a lot of that new writers do as an editor and as a coach or should I focus on things that I think, or the most important that if you do, this is a really bad thing. So I actually decided in the end I came up with eight total and I combined them and merged, I merged my lists so that I had a tough time that our, I see fairly commonly and are pretty critical sort of like what you were saying, you, you really try to not do these.

Autumn (12m 1s):
The bottom three are more like, well they are probably, it's not that big of a mistake. You'll you'll you'll survive that one, but the other one's a little bit more painful. So those were, that's how I do differentiate it up on my list. I resist to be mailing you. I figured I could figure this out on my own.

Jesper (12m 23s):
Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. I've tried to rank mine in order as well, so that it goes from sort of the smallest stuff to the bigger picture.

Autumn (12m 32s):
Oh, okay. Sounds good. I think I did that and now I'm looking at it over very quickly going, did I do that? I think I did that. Yeah. I think I'm good. Okay. I'll stand with it. And if I change my mind is the end. Well it's because I didn't pay attention to my order as

Jesper (12m 49s):
A fan of nobody will know it, unless you say it

Autumn (12m 51s):
Out loud. So I get to like number three and go no that one's should have been for a hard head.

Jesper (12m 58s):
Yeah. And then maybe also in the end, maybe we can try to see if we can, so I have five, you have five and then maybe we can see if we can agree on one out of all of those 10. That is like the way

Autumn (13m 12s):
The first one. Okay. That sounds good. I will not be surprised. I bet we have overlap. So the reader as well, our listeners will have to forgive us if we don't quite have 10 because we psychologically just, Oh, come up with a similar thing.

Jesper (13m 30s):
Yeah. And if the listener, if you have listened to some PA a past episode where we are doing these lists, then you will know a part of the funniest to see how much overlap we actually have that. So we have not coordinated any of our five. I have five that I did an isolation and all of that at the same. Yes. So we'll see how much have a overlapping there is and how much we agree or, or maybe we can surprise each other who knows?

Autumn (13m 54s):
Hm, no. I'm thinking of overlap. No, not really. And I will be fun to see and I, maybe I will share my last three cars. One of them is very, very New that I I've noticed more of a trend of. So, you know, I've got that one in reserve and we'll see if you come up with it, but yeah, I will do my best to keep score Again but I'm ready whenever you are. If you want to start with your number five Mistakes that does make sense.

Jesper (14m 25s):
Okay. Okay. I'll make it go for it. So my number five it's well, actually the funny thing in my notes, I want one, two, three, four, or five, meaning that number five was the worst. A number one was the least worst. So now you want me to start with number five? It's like at the wrong thing. Right? So I'll do that. But not just the one that says number one in my notes, this is the number five engine.

Autumn (14m 46s):
So that's one difference. You have my number one is a horse. Right? Okay. So at this one is a small talk in dialogue that doesn't have any relevance to the story. So that will be something like, wow, it's

Jesper (15m 4s):
Really raining this morning.

Autumn (15m 6s):
Yes, it is really pouring down. No, yes, no. I got all wet coming here that this is not interesting

Jesper (15m 14s):
To the reader right now is just fill awards and you, you,

Autumn (15m 16s):
You need to avoid that kind of thing. Yeah. That's absolutely. I don't actually have that one on my list. So you did surprise me right off the bat. A very, very good. But I agree. I I've read a lot of dialog where you are, like, there has to be a point to this. There's a point to this right. There is please let there be a point to this and yeah, there was none. It could just be careful. They are indeed.

Jesper (15m 41s):
You mean? And I think, I can't remember which episode it was, but I do remember in the past that we've also talked about the fact that when you, as the writer put something on your face,

Autumn (15m 51s):
The reader will think, so

Jesper (15m 53s):
Is that this is here for an important reason. That's why I'm reading it. Otherwise you wouldn't be there. Right. And then if you have all this kind of talk about it. Yeah. It's really raining this morning and okay. Have a good day, see you later. And then they will,

Autumn (16m 4s):
Maybe that will be like, what was the part that you were really just, yeah. It makes me shake your head and you lose a little bit of love for the novel. So don't do that. That's that's a very good point. I'm impressed. All right. Thank you. So that's a good start for me then. And there was an American guy, but I don't know anyone's winning, but yes. Do you think you're doing great. All right. So my guess

Jesper (16m 28s):
It depends what I mean, if I surprised you or five times, then I'll say I'm winning, but if you're surprise me five times

Autumn (16m 35s):
Being score. Oh Hey, is that it does not sound fair. Who's making these rules. I don't not me. You know, even one of your kids, I think, you know, all right. So my number five is on expectations. I think it plays into the psychology and Author doubt, right? Or doubt so many authors, the new Author set expectations. So immensely high or vice versa. They said it's so incredibly low that they almost self sabotage. So it's, I think it's better to set a realistic that this is sort of hard work.

Autumn (17m 18s):
Book. One is hard. If you go into a book, one in love with it, but knowing this is going to be probably the hardest book you write and that you will get better and that it takes a series or several books to really learn the ropes and maybe feed all your hungry readers and gain a following. And then that's when you start making some waves, especially after you finished your first series. So I think very few brand new first time authors launch major careers with just one book. So I think I see those hopes and dreams that just writing this first one is going to be everything. And it really should be more like this is just a marathon.

Autumn (17m 60s):
This is just the stage one. And this is my learning curve. I knew of a very well known author who wants to joke that she was so glad she released her first book under a pen name, because then she could say that was not mine, but as you would prove so much. So that would be one of the Mistakes. I see so many new authors make that they just put too much pressure on themselves for a book won. Just write it. I learn from it. No you learned from it and don't make it an avalanche when it's just like a little puddle, right?

Jesper (18m 34s):
Hm. Yeah. Actually this morning I was listening to Joanna pen and you were saying how she was siting off another article, which I am sorry. I can't remember which one it was, but the point was that she had, she read my article in words, it was stated that The like breakaway novels, you know, in the past, sometimes people will write one novel and it would just take off. And the point of this article was that it's getting less and less frequent at that thing happens because we have this side of binge culture nowadays also, you know, the same thing with, with Netflix or HBO or whatever you are watching Hulu or whatever, you know, there's just, there's more a mentality or culture today where there was just a lot of options.

Jesper (19m 21s):
So you have a vast majority or, or, or, or a huge amount of stuff you can watch and, and you can see what you want to see. And, and, but it's not like one thing. And then every well, okay. So of course, sometimes there is a game of Thrones, so whatever, and then everybody we'll watch it. But in general, that's a very, very rare nowadays, you know, it's getting hot. If you're looking for, if you're setting your expectations for getting that lightning in a bottle, kind of normal, it it's not going to happen. I'm sorry. No,

Autumn (19m 54s):
Is that, it would be amazing if it did, but that's no way you should sell your hopes on. I've been really the best advices to do sort of what I'm doing. Now. You'd have to write all three books in a series before you release the first one, because then you can go back and write the first one again. So it's typically your fourth book that you've written in and it will be so much better and you will have learned so much and it will be so much better to release it and you can release the whole series. And you'll be that much further ahead because yeah. People like to finish things they like to binge. So just feed that and don't stress too much about book one,

Jesper (20m 31s):
Feed the monster to feed the monster. Yeah. Okay. So my next one here is a, it's pretty basic, pretty simple, to be honest and really quick, but it is important. Okay. And this one is about not including information in your Writing, you know, things like sound smells or what it feels like to touch the object that the character is holding and so on because this really helps to immerse the reader into the story. And you're writing just becomes much, much more engaging as a result. So when you are not including sensory information, that's really a tell tale of amateur.

Jesper (21m 10s):
Writing,

Autumn (21m 11s):
That's very true. So I love that one too. And I don't have that one, even though it is definitely it's actually in the starter kit, that is one of the one's that is listening to their, it's a very good, but I didn't include it in this one, but I, yeah, that's, that's sorta definitely a passion of mine. And I find that even when I'm writing currently, every once in a while, I'm like, I'm on the visuals. I'm stuck on visuals. If, if someone glazes at one more thing that I'm going to do screen, so you would need to, I mean, sometimes that's what editing is for, but yeah. Do your best to use all five senses, at least once in a chapter as a pretty good way of, you know, working at your writing, looking at your editing, it's a good goal.

Autumn (21m 52s):
Try it. And it will be improved. You're writing so much and improve your descriptions. You won't be repeating yourself because if something smells and then you'd see it, and when you touch it, those are all different senses in different descriptions and it will just make everything feel so alive. So I really like that one. Very good job. Hey, you're not winning though. Just to be clear, you're not winning well, I'm not sure. I agree. It will settle

Jesper (22m 17s):
It in the end. It depends on the score. I was

Autumn (22m 20s):
Worried that I went with a tried and true that I think has been true for so many new Authors and it was a huge, I don't know if it's a learning curve or just a right of passage. And that is losing steam in the middle of your first book or the book you're writing. And either you give up on it and go to the internet and to go to Facebook or Instagram and say how stuck you are or are you pick up a new story instead of finishing the one you're writing. And so then you just keep you're constantly in forever and writing your first novel, cause you haven't finished one yet and you just have to buckle down. I hate to say it is, I don't know what to do.

Autumn (23m 0s):
Well, there are a way of putting it, but you have to buckle down and keep going and stick it out. And at least Finnish one and may be published it and it will be better if you do that. Don't get, don't get lost in the muddy middle. It's so many authors don't get past that one point.

Jesper (23m 18s):
Yup. And that's also very true as it was also a good one. Yeah.

Autumn (23m 22s):
You were just saying that. I just feel like you're just saying that to make me feel better, do you? No, no, no. It is a good one. Okay.

Jesper (23m 32s):
Yeah, no doubt about it. I was just trying to So when I'm on number three, right now, there are a number of three were in the middle one middle one. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I had a few examples on this one. Oh, excellent. I like

Autumn (23m 46s):
Examples.

Jesper (23m 48s):
Yeah. So this is about using the same sentence construction over and over again. So if you are, for example, Writing something like he walk to the door, he opened the door, he entered the room. Well, when I say it out like this, as you can already see how bad that sound's right. But if instead that you vary your sentences, then it will come across as much more professional. As an, as an example, if I use the sensory information that we just talked about a moment ago with the same Sentences that the census says that I just made an example of here and it could be something like he walked through the door, the handle felt cold in the Palm of his hand.

Jesper (24m 33s):
As you turned it on a foul smell, forced his way into his nostrils. As soon as he opened the door, wasn't that much, much better.

Autumn (24m 41s):
It's a very nice, much better in a great example of your number, your previous one. And this one that was that since I'm a numbers guy, that's very good. I like that. And it's almost like you listened to our recent podcast on don't start sentences with this word. All right.

Jesper (25m 2s):
Yes. That's true. Yes. I didn't even think about that. But now that you say that, yes, that's right.

Autumn (25m 7s):
And a fantastic example for that Podcast so if anyone else wants to have a fun, go will listen to that one as well.

Jesper (25m 16s):
Yeah. I can't remember what number it was, but yeah. You could find it in the, in the feet. You could just scroll through it and find the one that said something about don't start a sentence with his word or something like that, right?

Autumn (25m 27s):
Yeah. I think it was cold. Yeah, exactly. And it was a fairly recent, so it was not like you're going to go back months. So it should be just, you know, eight episodes back for her the most. So that's right. Yes. I agree. We have you covered that recently. So that's a very good example. So my line again is different. I can't, but this is like the most non overlap we've ever had with one of those lists. I don't know what's going on. This is a strange, I'm worried. We were not on the same way, like for once what's going on. So I don't know. I, I think somebody cheated. It's like, yes, you saw my list somehow. And actually we just screenshare.

Autumn (26m 8s):
So you might have been, you might have seen my list and you were like, I'm changing them all. All right. So my middle one, my number three is not making Writing a habit. So, so many new authors you'll see them talking about waiting for inspiration. And it's like waiting for a lightening to strike. You really have to be writing it. Maybe not as a job, everyone says it's a job as a career. It doesn't have to be, it could be a hobby don't you wanna spend time doing your hobbies, whether it's cross-stitching or hiking or a stamp collecting. I don't know. What, what do people do for hobbies eye, right? So don't feel need to know, but even if it's a hobby, you should spend time doing it and you should love it.

Autumn (26m 52s):
And it is, you should want to learn more about it and investigate it and talk about it and be really passionate. You know, that's why you do it. That's what you do with hobbies. But I often see, you know, Authors, you know, these or wait for inspiration or, and when they're not waiting for inspiration, maybe they are hanging out in an Author group or hanging out in an Instagram and they are not really learning the craft. And that's not that that's really a strange way to treat a hobby. Something that you wanted to do, you should actually be a little more investigative and you should take it. It feels like I said, no, I don't have to say seriously, because that takes the fun out of it. And writing it should have some joy as much as passion. And, and there are of course, the days where it doesn't and you do get up at four 30 in the morning and they get your word count for the day.

Autumn (27m 32s):
So you can go help somebody else that you have scheduled and get some formatting done. You know, those kind of days everyone has, those are there, they happened, but there should be loving in it as well. And something that really gets you excited. And so, you know, treated at at least as something like that, at least as serious as something you're passionate about and learn more about it.

Jesper (27m 53s):
Yeah. It's probably sometimes a bit of a procrastination tool as well. You know, the, the, I don't know, I don't have the inspiration right now. I think it's, it's just also, I won't say all the time and always because I'm sure that some people have good reasons or whatever they do, but a certain In and a lot of instances, or at least let me put it like that. I think it also is an excuse and why people are making the excuse. I can not judge that's up to them, but maybe they have a good reason. But at the end of the day, you know, if, if you want to make something with your writing, you have to write. I mean, I think it's the end of the day, the truth

Autumn (28m 34s):
You want to procrastinate, don't procrastinate on Facebook or Instagram, go to procrastinate by reading an article on how to write better. That's at least useful procrastination. Yeah.

Jesper (28m 45s):
So to some extent, but at the same time, you only learn to write by writing. So yeah. But okay, good. One

Autumn (28m 53s):
Oh, thank you. Well that, I feel a little bit better than that.

Jesper (28m 59s):
Yeah. I can't press it too much because then you might think that we were, the score has even as an actor,

Autumn (29m 3s):
You know, I'm feeling like it might be a pretty, even neither of us bet on how much overlap on this one. So I've really got two more to go to find out, you know, when you have any of the wonderful, maybe the number one, I'm going to bet number of one, but maybe not. We'll see. We'll see. So far, I like all your answers though, that they are the WRITING coach and editor and me is going on, but you're still not winning. Even if you've won my writing coach and editor hat, you you're still not winning. So that's just the way it goes.

Jesper (29m 33s):
Okay.

Autumn (29m 35s):
Well, we'll see, one sec. Okay.

Jesper (29m 38s):
So this is my number two, I guess. All right. So yeah, last week we talked about Author voice. So can you guess what I have as my number two of them,

Autumn (29m 51s):
Character development knows how to throw in a curve ball and nothing has been aligning today, so, okay. I'm fine. Author Voice

Jesper (30m 3s):
Yeah, it's about having too much. Author Voice Oh, interesting. Because I, I think the amateur writer can sometimes try to hot, to sound very professional. So as a consequence, they will start using too many analagist or a day too much ad, too much description and so on. And so on, you know, in an attempt to try to show off their creativity and, and the writing skills, it could also be maybe trying to much to sound like Tolkien or something like that. Or maybe another Fantasy Author that you are a door, but as a result, it just becomes too much.

Jesper (30m 43s):
So I'm just saying, don't write in a fashion that forces the reader to reread Sentences because it's so complicated. Then the structure, you know, the, the, the writing needs to flow smoothly and pleasantly, and not in a very abstract way that it's very difficult to get the meaning of what you're trying to say. So I think that's, yeah, that, that is a sign of an amateur writer. And, but of course, I also have to say, you can also turn this number two on its head and say, its also a problem not to have enough voice.

Autumn (31m 15s):
So if

Jesper (31m 15s):
The writing fields is a very formal and stilted, that's not good either. So it becomes really difficult to a few close to the character's in that case. So yeah, it is like a fine balance to walk a fine, but you know, developing an author voice. Is that something we covered in last week's episode? So go back to listen to episode 97, if you haven't done so already and, and all the details will be shared there, but I think all of the voice is important in both in not having too much of it, but also not having to lose it.

Autumn (31m 48s):
Yes. It's its sort of like the, the, the quote, you know, kill your darlings, you know, keep it out the flower LA flowery language and things like that. But I do like this one Cause yeah. You're right. Because it was something I often see in maybe I don't know, I even thought of it. So jeez, you surprise me again, but yeah, often. Yeah, she sounded so satisfied with, with a guy who I am stumping her this time, but yeah, they'll Authors they often do you try to write to impress? Now here's a question for you that I think I, I would say kind of pose to me recently, but that's probably within the last year and a half, because I remember these things for some strange reason.

Autumn (32m 27s):
But what about, how do you feel about using words that like when I do an editing or spellcheck, I get this error that's like even a knowledgeable audience may not be familiar with the block. Do you think all language should be, you know, simple? Or can you use some complicated words that may be some people are going to have to go check out the dictionary for you?

Jesper (32m 53s):
I would say the only places where I feel it as okay to use very complicated language is if it's because of the character, if the character is just the type of person who uses a very complicated language, then it is absolutely OK to do it. But then you need to do it in a way where the fact that you don't understand what he's saying is part of the gimmick, right? So it's not like he's sharing very important plot detail that you need to understand. And then nobody gets it. That's not going to work. They wouldn't like to kind of know, but if its part of he's that's his court that he is a bit weird and he talks very complicated, then that's absolutely fine. But in all other cases, I will say no, the, the, the, the writing has to flow smoothly.

Jesper (33m 37s):
And so did you don't get pulled out of it and I'd have to go and look at the dictionary to just understand what you read. I mean, it has to be a pleasant experience and it's not in place. It's not pleasant. If, if you almost feel like stupid, because I don't understand what it says and probably I should understand, but I don't. Right. And then you feel stupid as a reader. That's right.

Autumn (33m 54s):
That is a good, I don't know. I still, I know as a teenager, I mean, I'm talking about like one word out of every 10 chapters maybe is a new and unfamiliar words. That might be an advanced grammar of a dance language. But I think that's why I have such a big vocabulary is because I read like a voracious teenage, the sorceress just picked up a ton of words and I still love using them. There's so much fun. Do you use words like avarice and things like that or that, or, you know, I could just use green, but avarice has a fun sound to it. And if I ever have this published as a, an audio book, that's a cool sounding word, but yeah.

Autumn (34m 36s):
And not everyone might not know that one right off the top of their head. No, but I don't know.

Jesper (34m 41s):
I still think it depends a bit on what you're writing. I mean, if we are talking literary fiction versus a commercial fiction, right. Because if its commercial fiction is suppose to just be enjoyable, it's not supposed to teach you a new vocabulary. Right. But literary fiction, it could, it could be much, you, you could use more of those kinds of works in that case. So it, it, it, I think it depends on what your writing of course, but I'm always talking about commercial fiction. So that sort of my bias,

Autumn (35m 10s):
Well, I get it. I did grow up. I'm a Mercedes Lackey and, and rice Or and McCaffrey and stuff like that. So I, you know, so you could do it. I could do it too. That's my theory. Yeah. I know. I know. I've read a lot of them.

Jesper (35m 23s):
Yeah. And rise too. I don't think she uses complicated words. And to be honest,

Autumn (35m 28s):
Probably because you were an educational system might be a little bit better than ours, but don't tell anyone. I said that I'm not going to talk more about that. I could move on. So moving on to my number two is not building an audience as your right. So waiting until you released book one and expecting that lightning in the bottle, as you cleverly use a metaphor for So. Yeah, no, you know, it's, you don't want to spend too much time building an audience because you wanted to. Right. As I said, and the previous one, but you definitely need to have a plan, whether it's building your newsletter or just hanging out in readers groups, you want people following you on your journey and getting excited about what you're writing so that when you release a book one, you know, you gotta, you got a platform and some people who are excited to celebrate with you, that's really important.

Autumn (36m 24s):
And I do see still a lot of fathers are getting better and a lot of the authors are getting very savvy, but there's still so many new authors who write in that cliched, tiny dark room. And then they are merged with a fully finished novel. And there started to find out the rest of the house was empty.

Jesper (36m 44s):
I think I've worked out why all of this are so different.

Autumn (36m 48s):
No. Yeah, yeah. 'cause my life.

Jesper (36m 51s):
This is very much focused on the Writing itself, where you are a bit more focused on the, the mechanics of the business of Writing and also the mindset of Writing. And I think that's right.

Autumn (37m 4s):
Yeah, no, that's good. And it's the same way as you shuffle these together, you're getting a very kind of complete list from the technique to the business of it. So I guess it makes sense. Yeah. I'm glad I didn't send you that email because I might've changed my answers. And then the listeners wouldn't have had such an interesting experience, right?

Jesper (37m 24s):
Yeah, no, no, that's good. And that definitely building an audience that show it that's hugely important and yeah, we've talked multiple, multiple times and past. Episode also one of the Am Writing, Fantasy a YouTube channel. There's multiple videos there as well about building email lists and why its important. So I don't think we need to labor that more here, but it is just so incredibly important. So we cannot be said enough.

Autumn (37m 47s):
Absolutely. All right. So we're on to the last two or three Oh one, I suppose the last one, one each day. So yeah. Are number one worst mistake and wondering, well, it's still bee. No overlap. I can imagine.

Jesper (38m 3s):
So I have a feeling it will now because I think maybe yeah, unless you are as a Writing related, then it, there will probably be, you know,

Autumn (38m 11s):
Or it might be, you know, let's see what yours is. Okay. So there was,

Jesper (38m 18s):
So what I have on my list is a head hopping. So this is when you are in one character's head, you know, seeing what that person sees and hears and their character, you get the character's thoughts and so on. And then a sentence later, we are in another character's head. I read a book quite recently that from time to time has a tendency to do head hopping. And I'll just tell you it's really jarring, jarring and really good.

Autumn (38m 45s):
So I mean,

Jesper (38m 48s):
Moving from one point of view, character to another, between chapters is absolutely fine. You know, I do it, Autumn do it with our Martin, do it. All right.

Autumn (38m 56s):
So yeah. It's nothing wrong with that. I like that crowd that you mentioned Yeah but yeah, no, I agree. Head hopping when it's literally see sometimes it's between sentences in a much less paragraphs. All right. It is definitely one of my pet peeves. I remember reading a book once where it was a character looking across at someone shaking at a picnic blanket. And then the next sentence was the person shaking out the picnic blanket. And I was like, what is going on? I was lost and confused. And I think I might've stopped the book right there. Or at least I started skimming in just all of it. It got any better. And I think eventually it settled into one character.

Autumn (39m 38s):
And even then that was confusing. It's like, why did you choose that one? And not the person over there? So yeah. That's yeah, it is a better one.

Jesper (39m 47s):
You really have to learn to master the point of view stuff, because same thing, you know, if something is happening behind the character, the character can see it. So you can't describe what, what it looks like behind him because him or her, because you, if the character can see it, you can not describe it. That's just It and you can't just have to another character who can't see it because that's convenient. That's not, that's not a hobby.

Autumn (40m 9s):
Yes. That's not. Okay. You know, you have to solve the problem for the character who is head you're in and not some other way.

Jesper (40m 16s):
Yeah. I mean, if you want to do a change to another character within the same chapter between chapters, it's easy because then we have, we have a break and everybody knows, okay, now it could be a new character. If you wanna do it in the middle of this chapter, you can do that as well. But then you need to put in something like a, maybe a graphical cymbal in between paragraphs or some sort of break that sort of shows the reader that, Oh, okay, there is a change here and then you can move into another that's okay. But still, I would say, I prefer to do it between chapters and not in the middle of the chapter, but if you have to do it, then at least put in something in the, on the page itself that clearly shows that something is changing.

Jesper (40m 55s):
Right?

Autumn (40m 56s):
Yeah. And some kind of transitional break lines or something, but yeah. And even that, you know, then it's not an excuse to have five of those on a chapter. I mean more than one story too much yet. So don't jump more than three characters on one chapter, but it's a better look, read some George R. Martin. He does a fantastic job of staying in one character's point of view for an entire chapter and they flow. So Well and you get to know who the character, if you have whop, you don't really get to know the character well enough to care. And that's part of what is so important about writing. So that has an excellent number of one. Yeah. And I also wanna just tack on to that, that I think that

Jesper (41m 37s):
You also need to be mindful that this is a sort of stuff that agent's will notice, you know, so if you are trying to get traditionally published and they will probably be, not offer you a contract, if they see head hopping in your manuscript very bad, or even if you are self publishing, it will take a lot of time for the edits that you can clean up this stuff. So maybe you are edited, you don't mind doing So, but it's going to be there.

Autumn (41m 57s):
They do a lot of money. So yeah, I think you just, you need to get this under control. Definitely a high concur. And I think if I was doing the writing techniques, that would be my number one, but I always focused on something different, even though this is sort of a Writing technique. So my number one is writing the story with absolutely no plan for your first book. And it just thinking you are going to tackle your way through it and get there and not taking the time and realizing there's so much to learn in their story structure and character arcs the character arcs titled the plot. And so that made me develop it later. But seriously, if there's ever a book, what are you become a full time pants or not?

Autumn (42m 39s):
If there was ever a book to have a plan, have a plan for your first book, it'll be a lot less painful.

Jesper (42m 47s):
Oh, I feel this one though, because this was exactly where I ended up. I kind of put it,

Autumn (42m 55s):
This is what it is a nod to both of us because it is how I started my first debut novel as well. I, I, I got the chapter three, then the characters got lost. I think my chapter five, I was last, the characters were lost and I said, we need to structure. And I got a structure and I learn very quickly from there. But yeah, I think that it might be how they talk about what is the 99% of the people who start off writing a novel fail. This was probably the first hurdle as an author. You hit that point where you were like, I don't know what happens. The inspiration drives up. You just, you know, the character stopped talking to you.

Autumn (43m 36s):
Whatever happens. I love that joke that, you know, brighter has served the, when the characters, the writers block is one of the character stopped in your head, stopped talking to you. So this is a Yeah, this is what all of that happens. And you need to find a plan to get through that and to learn, to write well and to write your story. And yeah, it's your first cutting. Our first tooth as an author is to get through that. So go for it, get a plan. Yeah. And I could say, maybe you want to go to bed

Jesper (44m 6s):
Or whatever online platform you normally buy your books on. And then maybe you want to search for either Autumn's name or my name. And then

Autumn (44m 15s):
Yeah. And maybe you buy that and then maybe everything will be explained to you. That will definitely help. I mean, it is the worst case scenario. Just go to the Am Writing Fantasy blog and put in the story structure and you'll get a couple of articles that will kind get you to get you started and get you started. And then you can realize that maybe you should get the plotting book, Cause it? It would help you so much when you start a book too. And you were like, Oh, this is what it was supposed to be doing it just so we have, we truly had a list of 10. We did not overlap that at all. Oh no. So this is a tough one. How do we conclude? Which is the worst of them all?

Autumn (44m 56s):
I don't know. Cause there are all going to hurt you in some way or another hurt are writing here at the hurt, the story or telling or hurt your author career. Or if you do these, I don't know which ones do we need an independent judge. Maybe the listener should tell us, which is the worst one that could help us out when we do need the emotional journey. That that will be cool to see if anybody wants to tell us. And please do. I think, I would say that you are number one day might be the worst One. And my thinking is that if you can finish the first book because you sort of screwed whole thing up by not planning anything, then it doesn't matter about small talk in the dialog or a sentence structures, or even building email lists on.

Autumn (45m 48s):
Because if you don't have anything and you are never going to finish it because you sort of drive into the ditch then than maybe all of the other nine items. Yeah. It doesn't really matter too much. I don't know how I like that. I'll go with that. I could accept that because that makes me feel like I won. So. Okay. That's true. Actually, a change that, and this has been recorded and I think I'm editing this one. So Nope. Not changing. It sorry. Do you want me to change? Sort of edit this one of the new editor next week. Episode no, no, no, no. I'm good. I can fit this one in this week. I'm good. Okay. Well listen to, can you please let us know that you disagree with this conclusion and, and then pick another one?

Autumn (46m 34s):
Please all right. So I will honor the listeners comments and we will see which one they think is the worst and then will choose the champion. I don't know what we get to know. Okay. So next Monday we are going to talk about the self publishing landscape is a two lane to get into self publishing. Well, tune in next one,

Narrator (46m 58s):
If you like what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to support The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast please tell a fellow Author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn in Yesper on patrion.com/am Writing Fantasy for as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast going to stay safe out there and see you next Monday.