The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 9 — Tools for Authors: Mailing List Management

How do you handle organizing your mailing list and newsletters to reach out to readers? Join Evan Gow, writer and creator of Story Origins, and Autumn as they discuss tools on how to efficiently manage a mailing list.

Check out StoryOrigin at https://storyoriginapp.com/!

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Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Autumn (12s):
Hi, if you're a Fantasy author, then you have come to the right place. My name is Autumn Birt and with Jesper Schmidt, I run the Am Writing fantasy.com channel between us, we published more than 20 novels and our aim is to help you in your writing and marketing endeavors today. Yesper is a way on business and I have in his place our guest Evan Gow, Evan is a writer. But what we're going to focus on today is the creation of the website StoryOrigin and how it helps Authors, especially with mailing lists and engaging readers.

Autumn (44s):
So hi Evan.

Evan (46s):
Hey, thanks for having me on. Autumn

Autumn (48s):
it is good to have you. Um, so Evan you, I know you said you right a little bit. You are a Fantasy writer, but what you have been working on most recently is StoryOrigin. So if you could tell us a little bit about that and why you came up with it.

Evan (1m 3s):
Yeah, so StoryOrigin is essentially a community and uh, marketing tool, uh, that's helpful for building your email list, uh, doing cross promotions with other authors of your paid books as well. And then also, um, at work and WRA, I'm helping to promote each other.

Autumn (1m 21s):
Awesome. And so what inspired you to create this platform? What need did you see that was out there for this? For other Authors?

Evan (1m 31s):
Yeah, so, um, there are a bunch of other platforms out there for marketing and doing very specific things. So you have essentially like four or five different marketing tools. You might use one for doing giveaways and group giveaways and then you might use one for doing newsletter swaps, um, and being able to trust those other people at your swapping with, and then you might use one for there. There isn't even other, another platform for running group sales, uh, like you can run on a StoryOrigin.

Evan (2m 5s):
The only way Authors have done those in the past is by manually building those pages on their WordPress sites and then trying to get other authors to sort of join them. So StoryOrigin is sort of the only platform for running group sales like that. So I saw this need. Umm, and the other thing is, uh, being able to create a universal links to your book so that when you send out a link to a reader, they can see where the book is in what stores and then set what their favorite store is and automatically on future at times they click on those universal book links, they'll be taken directly to their favorite store.

Evan (2m 42s):
So it's just still a one click process. So there are all of these different platforms, right? You might want to use like four or five different tools to do all those things. And with StoryOrigin you can do it all on a single platform.

Autumn (2m 56s):
That is one of the things that I suffer solid. Um, when I first noticed StoryOrigin before when I was getting to meet you, it was, it was neat how you were a packaging, all of these different websites and different platforms and even some new things. Like you said, it's um, some of it hadn't even really existed quite in the forum. You've been creating it. When did you first launch Story Origins

Evan (3m 18s):
so I started working on StoryOrigin back in July of 2017. That's when I left my job to work full time on StoryOrigin. And then I, uh, had the initial launch for a StoryOrigin April of 2018 and since then, uh, I've added, you know, a ton of features and anyone that's a, uh, was an early subscriber. The StoryOrigin has seen it, uh, go from, you know, a very small number of features to now being the sort of all encompassing platform where you can manage all everything from one place.

Evan (3m 52s):
So it's, it's been a cool journey and only over the last 10 months that, uh, it's really been really been going. So it's very cool.

Autumn (3m 60s):
It is. I've watched, I was a pretty early Am noticed it pretty early because I had actually just recently switched Am Mailing List platforms from MailChimp to mailer Lite. And then I ran into Story Origins, which I thought was kind of funny. So I do actually, I have a profile on there and I've used it a little bit. Um, and if mailer Lite decides to go wanky on me as a kid, I might just move everything over to your platform because I love to see how it is growing. And I love that it is author focus, which is I think one of the neat things. So many other ones like MailerLite has some landing pages, templates that are designed for authors, but you can't network there to create a giveaway to um, find other people who do newsletter swap.

Autumn (4m 40s):
There are a lot of things you are offering. And I think one of the coolest, I think, um, it would be a good discussion to talk about, you know, each of those features and you know, why, why do you, why, which one did you start with? And then why did you start adding some of the other ones and how do you see Authors using them?

Evan (4m 56s):
Yeah, so the very first feature that I started with was being able to create a giveaway and a giveaway. For those of the audience that aren't familiar with it is typically, uh, you might also hear it referred to as a reader magnet. It's typically a short story, 10 to 15,000 words that you give away for free, uh, an exchange when someone signs up to your mailing list. So I started with that feature because I thought that would be the best way to start giving like, uh, providing value to Authors.

Evan (5m 27s):
And then, uh, after that I added the group giveaways feature where authors can get together in a group. So you, me and 20 other Fantasy Authors we'll all have our books, our, our reader magnets listed on a single page and we all drive our traffic there. And so it has network effects with that feature. So that sort of started the word of mouth for StoryOrigin.

Autumn (5m 51s):
That's fantastic. So you started with the giveaways and with the, uh, with the, as you said, reader magnet, which is really fortunate at a Yesper. And I just recently did, uh, a different video and earlier a video talking about, you know, why you need a mailing lists and the use of how to build one. And we mentioned reader magnets. So it's sorta like the core of what began StoryOrigin and what did you add after that?

Evan (6m 15s):
So the next feature that I after added after that was the group sales feature. So, um, and the, the Amazon link localizer. So when someone, when you send an email to someone and you just send them to the straight Amazon link, if that's at the.com domain and they click on that link, but they live in the UK or they live in Australia, they're not going to be in the correct storefront for their country. Uh, their Amazon storefront is.co dot. UK or.edu or whatever country they're from.

Evan (6m 46s):
So the first thing that I built was basically an Amazon link localizer you put in your Amazon link and then whenever anyone clicks on your Amazon storefront for that country. Uh, and that was sort of the enabling feature for me to build the group sales pages. Where you, me in 20 other Fantasy Authors it's very similar to a group giveaway where we're all promoting our books, but instead of people clicking on those links in those links going to, uh, the reader magnet, they go to our Amazon sales page so that we can actually make money.

Evan (7m 22s):
And the way that I, the reason that I, I built that feature next was because I didn't see a single other platform out there where you can do that. I saw these authors who were manually building these pages on their own WordPress sites and I know how much work that can be. Uh, and so I was like, there should be, there should be a super simple, you know, two minute process for creating a group promotion and then finding other Authors to Join. So that's how I, that's how I, I, I started with that feature.

Autumn (7m 54s):
Great. That is Am. It definitely is true. I've built a few giveaways on my writer website and it is, I'm, you know, I took a couple, once you got to a template going it was okay, but then someone had to swap out links and your responsible for uploading these images, they give you the wrong one. Right. And it was a, uh, people wanted me to do it again because it got a lot of, um, you know, it was definitely like one of the biggest, a website days or weeks you want to say for my website of, you know, it was huge and that was really cool to probably up by ranks on my website a little bit.

Autumn (8m 28s):
But the work going into it, you need to set some time aside to code that. And so it is really neat that you have that with Story Origins. Yep. And if you can do Am newsletter swaps, correct. Is that something that I think you could net work to do that as well. Yeah.

Evan (8m 44s):
So that was the feature that I added after the group sales feature. So once I had the sort of the universal links and the group sales, one other thing that I noticed was, okay, there are a lot of Facebook set group that's out there for Authors too. Say, Hey, I've got a newsletter going out in two weeks. Does anyone want to mention my book in their newsletter? I'll mention your book in your and my newsletter. There are a couple of other platforms out there for doing this, but one is run by a scam artist.

Evan (9m 16s):
Ah, and the other one is the author has, or not the author, but the developer behind it has just been letting it languish. And from what I've heard from other authors who use that platform, it's essentially unusable now because like your, you get a bunch of errors when you try and do stuff on there now. So uh, I, I was like, okay well StoryOrigin can sort of come in here and be that all encompassing platform for uh, creating and finding cross promotions with other authors in your genre.

Evan (9m 47s):
That's like the vision. So I can, I can start to have a way for Authors to find a newsletter swaps. I'll post my campaign, what book I want you to mention in your campaign and then you post your campaign and what book you want mentioned and my campaign and then we can, we can essentially trade mentions of each other's books. And so that's, that's a, it's sort of an all encompassing platform for all those cross promotions you might do.

Autumn (10m 13s):
And so on. I want to get into it, a few other details with it, but do you have any more things that are coming out that you want to share or your other visions for how else you can think StoryOrigin is going to help Authors in the future? And out of curiosity, are you doing all this coding yourself? This is Am. I do a little tiny, tiny bit of coding and I do, do build my own websites because I have that background. Computer stuff runs in my family. Yeah. It's a lot of work. So I look at what you've been doing with StoryOrigin, especially the coding to do the universal links and I'm like, wow.

Autumn (10m 46s):
Um, that's some skill to make sure it's really going to work. Right. So I was curious if you're doing this all on your own.

Evan (10m 53s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm completely independent. Uh, I've been basically building this platform by myself for the last 18 months and doing all of the marketing and handling all of the, all of the customer service. So, and he's StoryOrigin it's, it's, it's me Am every part of it for sure. At the, uh, the good and the bad, hopefully more good than bad. Um, so, so yeah, uh, you know, when I started to work on StoryOrigin, I basically looked out at the sort of landscape of ways that I could build it, the various tech stacks that I could use.

Evan (11m 29s):
And I, I'm using a very sort of modern tech stack to build Story StoryOrigin that really allowed me develop features faster than any one on the market. Uh, and since it is just me, I have direct feedback from Authors who on the platform. And I'm like always looking at, okay, here's what people are doing, here's what people are saying in Facebook groups, uh, about like what they're doing and how they're doing it.

Evan (12m 0s):
And like manually doing stuff. And I'm like, okay, why, why, you know, why can't I do this? I should be able to build this. And I think when you have, when you have a separation between who's doing the work of doing the development and who is sort of supposed to be creating the product roadmap, it creates this difference in terms of, you know, understanding the market. And then like actually building it. And since since it's just me, I have a very things that I know Authors will find valuable and a way to get to your other point on what new features, uh, I'll be adding.

Evan (12m 37s):
There's definitely more stuff that I plan on building with StoryOrigin. And the next sort of enabling thing that I want to do is uh, managing. So, so if you think about the, the set of marketing sites that you might use might use something for universal book links. You might use something for giveaways you might use. Well again there's nothing else out there for group sales. And then the fourth is sort of advanced reading copies, right? Arcs. So there are a few different arc management platforms out there and basically that's probably the next feature that'll add to a store Origins so it really will cover every single base.

Evan (13m 14s):
I basically want to make you sort of the master of every element of marketing with StoryOrigin is like, that's what I want you to feel like, like your, the, your, the Zen master of, of, of, of being able to do everything.

Autumn (13m 26s):
I love it because I mean you, I know you said you haven't published any of your writing, but you are a writer and I can definitely tell from having watched you grow StoryOrigin and met with you and talked with you. Um, even just online and Facebook groups, like you've mentioned, you, uh, you're are a real person and not a scammer and you really do have the best interests of Authors at heart, which has fantastic. Is there a way, so I want to talk just a little bit. So you started this as a niche. It is a, you know, you started with looking for these links and with mailing lists, building up why and what niche or do you think that needs, why do authors need to have a platform like this?

Autumn (14m 4s):
Not just the, your putting all in one spot, which is definitely fantastic cause you're writing this is like four or five different sites. And if you were paying each of those sites, um, it gets really expensive, especially when, you know, most authors are making, you know, if they're making a thousand bucks a month, they're really happy. Some of them, you know, if they're making 200 bucks, it's then you still have a challenge of paying for your editing and your covers. It's especially as a newbie is it's hard to make it lucrative. So, you know, what is it that, um, you know, this is the integral part. Why did they, you start this for the Authors and the mailing lists.

Evan (14m 35s):
Yeah. Uh, one other thing to mention right now is StoryOrigin has basically been in an open beta, which is what I'm calling it. A beta doesn't mean that it's crappy software. Beta basically means that I'm not sure what the pricing model is going to be in the future. Uh, so it's completely free right now for people to, while I'm sort of making myself like a presence in, in the, in the, in the publishing world, just because, you know, there's a lot of companies out there who are, like you said, there are a newbie authors out there and they're not bringing in that much income yet.

Evan (15m 6s):
And there are publishers who are just like trying to prey on people who are sort of new to the writing scene. And all of that. So right now a while Origins I'm trying to sort of establish myself as like, here, I'm a human, it's a completely used test. If you don't like it, that's not a problem. I think. I think that you will like it though of course. And then building, building email lists like that is, that is sort of, that is a very valuable feature I think to go to Authors, which is sort of why I started there.

Evan (15m 35s):
Because right now if you look at what Amazon is doing, they're pushing more and more towards you having to advertise your book to get any sort of visibility on their platform, which is in turn driving up the cost per click or like the cost to advertise on Amazon. And so it's becoming, it's, it's became a, a greater barrier to new authors, especially who don't have a backlist of 20 books where okay, it's okay if I lose money on the first book because, you know, they'll pick up my second, third, fourth book.

Evan (16m 12s):
And so I can, I can sort of eat the cost on that at that first book. Um, so for new authors building that email list is a direct line of communication to your readers, right? It's you, you, you aren't going to, uh, there's not going to be some change in an algorithm that means, okay, I was yesterday paying 70 cents for you to click and see my book and now I'm paying a dollar 50. Right? With an email list, it's, you always have that direct line of contact, that direct line of feedback. So it's, it's, it's becoming more important now than ever, especially as these other platforms become more expensive to advertise on.

Autumn (16m 50s):
That is definitely true too with Am Amazon. Not only is it becoming more expensive, like I know I have a dystopian series and there are a, some dystopian key words that are completely locked up. If it costs more to put money into advertising them, then you know, the book is worth. So they end up languishing. But then, I mean I started publishing in 2012 and I called it the wild West days of indie publishing because you could pretty much throw up anything and it didn't even really need a cover. You don't have a color title and some words and a really horrible font and you could give it away or you could sell it.

Autumn (17m 25s):
And it was amazing. But I think the last time I checked Amazon, I mean that was, I think there might have been a million, maybe 2 million bucks at the time. Now there's over 9 million books on Amazon and that's just, it's hard to get an exact figure used to be able to look it up. But it's getting harder and harder. And so I do think a platform like yours, cause I believe Authors do get Am kind of like a profile page, like a book website page. So you can show off all your books at once. You discovered on a smaller platform, uh, buy people, you know, doing these group giveaways, you suddenly have someone discovering all your back or even if you, of course, the short story is at freebies.

Autumn (18m 1s):
You have them discovering so much more about you that can easily get buried on Amazon. If you are not really paying for that marketing and it is getting more and more expensive and you know, or you can give away a free book, which is great, but if you do consider that as a business model, you're giving away a free book, but that book costs you something and every time you're giving it away you're losing 33 cents of royalties you want. It was a nine 9 cent book as a business model that's eventually it. It kind of, its a huge loss leader to continue to give that away for years and years.

Evan (18m 33s):
Yeah. Yeah. The way that I think about, and I think, I think this advice is pretty sort of standard almost nowadays is that what you want to do is you want to write in a series, right? So you write, let's say, let's say it's a trilogy. So you write three books on the series and then you'll write a prequel novella or a prequel, a short story that's maybe 10 to 15,000 words. So it's, it's doesn't cost you a lot of time or money to edit and you give that that pre-qual away for free as a way to introduce the reader into your universe.

Evan (19m 5s):
Uh, and so they get to test drive you. If you think about it, it's very, very similar to actually like a subscription to MailChimp or to mailer light or any of these other services where you typically we'll get a like a one month free trial, see if you like the service and if you do then you'll sign up for the recurring subscription. Well you can think about your reader magnet as your free trial and then every book in that series is like a recurring monthly payment almost, right?

Evan (19m 36s):
If the, if that reader is reading one book a month or one book a week, you're getting sort of that recurring payment and so you can give away that short story for free because you know that X percentage of those people who get it are going to convert into your, your paying reader audience.

Autumn (19m 53s):
I think that is my favorite way of anyone ever describing the loss leader because I know there was a huge debate right now. How about, you know, it is a devaluing book's to give one of a way. Um, right. I definitely liked the idea that, you know, it's like a subscription service. Uh, that really makes a lot of sense. So we're almost at the 20 minute Mark, so I want to, anything else you want to wrap up to say, you know, why StoryOrigin um, you know, I love that as a beta platform. Like you said, I have not seen glitches. I've seen some major glitches in some of the programs and stuff that I've bought or, um, even continued to describe.

Autumn (20m 29s):
I subscribe to and you know, you, you sometimes put up with it, but it's worked fantastic. I think you're doing an amazing job, especially that you're doing it on your own. Umm, it's a whole lot of work. I build courses and I build websites and you know, it, it's a tough business to be an entrepreneur and it's amazing that it's going and especially that you left a full time job to be doing this. So I know it can't be free forever, but anything else you want to say about it to let people know what it, what it does? I think it's an amazing tool for author.

Autumn (20m 60s):
It's, and it's certainly growing in such unique and interesting ways as a one stop shop platform for us.

Evan (21m 6s):
Yeah, I mean I, you know, I wouldn't say that there's necessarily anything else to mention. You know, like I said, there's definitely things that I'm going to be adding to improve the existing features and add new features. I'm always working on new stuff and I sorta, I send out a newsletter whenever I make those feature upgrades or I add those new features. And so I would say even if you look at StoryOrigin and you say, Oh, well it doesn't do this thing like tomorrow, it may.

Evan (21m 36s):
So you might want to sign up just so you can keep up with, you know, any developments that are happening because maybe it didn't work for your use case today, but tomorrow it might. So I think it's still valuable and it's, you know, free to keep up with it anyway. So,

Autumn (21m 53s):
which is amazing. I look forward to seeing, um, seeing a grow and even if you have a, you know, when did you move it to a platform where it's paid or a subscription? I think that as I say, Authors it's okay to charge money for your books. Uh, we all want to do this and make money at it and be able to continue to see a product if it stays free forever. And then how are you going to get it to, you know, manage it. Right. So I think it's fantastic. Thank you for being with us today. And um, I will have the links below the show on Story Origins so you can go scoop it up while it's free and give it a test.

Autumn (22m 26s):
Try and thank you again for being here today.

Evan (22m 29s):
Awesome. Thank you so much for having me on. I really enjoyed our conversation.