The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 42 – How to Cope with Stress as a Writer

Autumn have been feeling quite overwhelmed and stressed out lately.

Unfortunately, she is far from alone in dealing with these feelings, yet its a topic that each writer often deals with in isolation. 

It's our hope, that by putting it out in the open - with this episode 42 of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast - that others will feel more empowered to talk about their feelings.

Hopefully, Autumn also managed to be inspirational in sharing her personal story. 

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Read the full transcript below.

(Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Narrator (2s): You're listening to the amwritingfantasy podcast in today's publishing landscape, you can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need in literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing join to best selling authors who have self-published more than 20 books between them. Now onto the show with your hosts, Autumn Bert and Jesper Schmidt. Hello? I am, Jesper.

Autumn (32s): And I'm autumn,

Jesper (35s): this is episode 42 of the amwritingfantasy podcast and we are going to talk about feeling overwhelmed today. And, uh, in many ways, uh, today's topic is, it's a bit personal, so I, I guess he upfront, I want to thank you autumn for the fact that you agreed to share some about, uh, you know, those feelings for the benefit of our podcast listeners. So I hope we were going to create a episode here that will really help people.

Autumn (1m 2s): Yes, we're going to definitely keep this one real folks. And I promise I will not be breaking down in tears though.

Jesper (1m 11s): No, hopefully not. We'll see how and, and Hey, I also have to say, I apologize if my voice sounds a bit raw today. I'm still recovering from a cold and the actual had a bit of fever over the weekend, so that was really annoying. Uh, and I am feeling better now, but I, I'm not quite there yet. So, uh, sorry about the bit here in voice today. It's really not the how try not to cough in your ear as well.

Autumn (1m 36s): Sounds good. But yeah, that's the funny thing doing the podcast. So I can't see you if, so for all I know, you know, you've got like your pajamas and your robot and a wash cloth over your forehead, so hopefully you're not that ill anymore.

Jesper (1m 50s): No, no, no, it's not that bad. Uh, it wasn't, uh, in bed either, you know, a sleeping all weekend or anything. But, uh, I was still, I was still moving around but I really wasn't, especially Saturday. I was really feeling bad, but

Autumn (2m 7s): it's getting better. That's good. That's an important thing, you know. And it's funny cause I, I just picked up Adam from a a leave no trace master educator canoe trip. So we had this wonderful training where you went to go canoeing in the Adirondacks and the fall weather. And while he was gone, I had the camper to myself for five days and I picked him up and he absolutely had a bat. Great time. It was fantastic. He met some fantastic people. Uh, he passed obviously. So now he's a master educator. Can train other people on how to leave no trace. But what was interesting is that of all the things, he has a lingering bad back.

So he's am ever since. I think it runs in the family because his mom has the same issue, so, Oh my goodness, yes. Talking about things that are slowly recovering, he is limping around very much and it's always one of those, it's a perception. I should, we kind of talked about perceptions and stuff before, but I've always thought it was you. You look at someone and you feel people look at him and he's six foot, two broad shoulder and it's very, you know, he looks like he would be a police officer. His family, way back to his great, great grandmother was a warden at a women's prison.

So I mean he's got that physique and they're like, Oh, you're so strong you can do anything. It's like, dude, his bag is so fragile. It's like I feel so bad for him. I haven't seen him in this much pain since am Oh geez. When we probably first met 19 years ago and, but it's recovering and I think it was just the way he was sitting in the canoe and paddling. I'm like, next time you wear a brace, next time you do this and, but he's on the meds and yeah, at least he got to go out.

Some of the pictures he took during the chorus or just, I almost wish I had gone with them, but Hey, I got some time on my own and I got to explore some really cute towns including Lake Placid where the Olympics were held. Winter Olympics were held twice, so I had some fun on my own. Yeah. I went to a, uh, coppery that the chef had changed, trained with Julia child. So, you know, it was a really difficult five days. Yeah. I'm usually us introverts. W we really hate being alone.

Oh. It's just absolutely horrible to not have to worry about what to cook for someone else or what time to eat, have to share my beer. It was really,

Jesper (4m 31s): but didn't, I can't remember. But didn't you tell me at some point that Adam is also, your husband is also a bit of an introvert? Yeah,

Autumn (4m 37s): he is. He um, he definitely needed some downtime. He's trying to do better with is extroverting stuff. Like we were just in town today and I was walking in and talking to people at shops, uh, filling out some stuff around town is like, I don't know how you can just walk in and start talking to people. Like, all right, let's give you some lessons on breaking the ice with someone you're meeting for the first time. So, but it has a, I could probably use some of those as well. Some of those lessons. I definitely, uh, I learned by doing, because I was a waitress for a year and I have also, um, I worked for the government.

I was going to people's houses and farms and trying to give insulin to do conservation programs with the federal government in the United States. Let me tell you, that's not always the easiest thing. And so you learn to talk to people. Really. I can talk to any why that's not a worry, but at some point even I need to turn off and go curl up with a book.

Jesper (5m 35s): Yeah, I would say that there's probably fair to say I could, I can, I can talk to anybody as well, but it, it doesn't come natural in the way that I have to actively think. The thought that, Oh, I guess I need to go and talk to that person, then I can easily do it. But, but it just not, it doesn't come natural to me. You know, my natural reaction is just to, you know, go my own way and do whatever for myself rather than going and talking to somebody. Right. So I need to, I need to be mindful about it and actively thinking about it all the time.

Otherwise I just don't do it.

Autumn (6m 7s): Yeah, I can understand that. I mean it's, I, I just was having this conversation with that. I'm actually, I remember in college I would be so used to being alone and doing my own thing and working on my own projects and I, it would probably be sunset and at that point it'd be like, I really haven't gotten anywhere today and I haven't talked to anyone and I'm kind of lonely. And so I would go for a walk, you know, it's like dinner time and I'm like, I think I, there's 15 minutes left in the cafeteria. I can go find someone to talk to and go have dinner.

And yeah, I was always am it took until sunset. So I can go about, you know, until the end of the day and evening I think is one of my social time is so if I could live in a community where the rest of the day you can work and mornings especially, don't talk to me until I have my team and I watched the sun come up and maybe our ride for an hour, then you can talk to me. But evenings I want to pull out the wine and sit by the fire and talk to the next 20 people in the room would be fantastic.

Jesper (7m 8s): Yeah. All right. I think evenings, uh, I quite like to just, uh, sit back and, you know, watch some Netflix, which, Oh, by the way, that reminds me. Did you ever watch the U S version of the office?

Autumn (7m 21s): I have not watched. I've watched maybe two episodes of it, honestly.

Jesper (7m 27s): Alright. Because I originally I watched the UK version, which was made years before the U S version. So it's, uh, it's Ricky Jarvis, who's a, who's a English comedian who created the office originally as a British TV series and it was absolutely awesome. And then, uh, later on the U S version that came out, he's also like, eh, I think executive producer or something. At least he has, he has his hands in it. Am

Autumn (7m 55s): okay.

Jesper (7m 55s): And then for many, many years, I resisted watching the U S version because I just felt like it can, it, it's just some sort of rip off and it cannot be as good as the original UK version. I just never watched it. And then maybe, I dunno, maybe four or five months ago, I can't remember, something like that, but some months ago, anyway, uh, I started watching it and I was like, Oh my God, this is excellent. And it's just so freaking funny. You have no idea. And it's, it's, and it has a lot of the same feel to it that the original UK version does.

So a lot of the subtle humor and the characters are just absolutely awesome. So, and then I was started watching it. I got really hooked and then I told my wife about, and she was like, no, I don't wanna watch the U S version. It's, it's, it's probably not better than you. It's exactly the same accident I had. And now we are like a, I dunno if she started a month ago or something watching it and now we a month later and she's watched more than me, so she took me now.

Autumn (8m 58s): But it's just, I don't know if you get the chance. What's it? It's amazing. I've heard that. She just never clicked with me, but maybe I'll give it another try. Honestly, we just picked up and started watching disenchantment, which is the same creator of the Simpsons, Matt groaning. So, um, he has a kind of fairy tales sort of animation cartoon. It's insane. Season two. And so we just watched the first episode of season two last night and okay.

You know, this Simpsons meets, um, the princess beanie, uh, being is the main character and her am Lucifer. Lucy is her demon. And it's really kind of fun to watch that. So that maybe when we're finished with am our current season two of disenchantment. All right, that may be it. Writing fantasy podcast

Jesper (9m 58s): so I was just inside the, uh, amwritingfantasy Facebook group here earlier today and uh, I sorta Kel posted, um, that's used currently writing her first battle scene in her book. And then she asked people how many battles scenes other people have in their novels. And I thought that was actually a quite an interesting question. Don't, don't you think autumn

Autumn (10m 20s): I was, I was actually, I had saw that one too. What was going to mention it as well. So I thought the same thing because I hadn't, you know, everyone thinks about the climax, but you know, how many, what other battles scenes do you have? Do you throw them in as hurdle? So I've been looking at some of the comments to see, you know, what other people say, you know, it, it's kind of all over the place. Some people say quite a few because it's military fantasy. Uh, there's one, you know, a couple of like just one, so, yeah.

Jesper (10m 49s): Yeah. But that's also why I picked it out to mention it here because I just wanted to pitch in here and basically say to Carol that at least from my perspective, you know, your novel needs as many battles scenes as is demanded by your story and no more, no less. I mean, I, I don't think you can say that a story has too many battles scenes or it has too few. It completely depends on what type of story it is that she's telling. At least that, that would be my point of view. But I don't know what you think.

Autumn (11m 16s): No, I agree. I mean, it's, I don't want to see too many of them. Like if I'm a reader and I'm reading a book, you know, if, if there's swords and mercenaries in magic, even magic's a good battle scene. I expect, um, you know, some minors scenes, especially as characters are learning their powers or learning how to use a sword. There should be some scuffles and things that you're learning along the way before you get to the big climax. But you know, if, if your climax is something different, a totally different based type of story, then you know, maybe there really weren't.

Maybe there'll be a lot more running. Maybe there's a lot more questing and searching, but again, usually something that attacks you in the woods. So I'd be surprised if there's only one. But I definitely, I actually, I hate to admit this, this is probably so horrible, but when I read Lord of the rings, I actually skipped skim through the battle scenes because they were just too detailed and too many character names. And I just, at one point I had two or three paragraphs into it, I realized I didn't care. So I just looked for the characters.

I knew skim to the end of it and said, ah, this is who won. And kept going.

Jesper (12m 28s): Yeah. But that's actually where I think the, the Lord of the rings movies did a good job because in the movies you assume into the characters and see what they are doing on the battlefield. And then it becomes interesting, whereas these like huge scenes where it's described that 1000 soldiers road runs into another thousand soldiers and they slay half of them and it's like, well that's not really that interested because I'm not invested in those soldiers. But if if you sort of assume into the character running in the midst of all these people and on all the chaos around and whatnot, then it becomes interesting all of a sudden.

Autumn (13m 2s): Yeah, I know we've both talked about that before. I mean, I, when I wrote my first, especially the trilogy Epic fantasy climactic battle seed, so I mean, you know, three books building to this scene and you know, there were I think ended up being nine chapters for the entire battle because it's huge. But I kept it to each of the characters, basically what their experience was through the battle and that kind of made it so much easier to tear apart when I was approaching the first time ever. Writing something this big and massive and it does, it means more for the readers and it, it's really a great way to write it as just a focus on what's going on with this character.

And then I always say like having big telltale events that basically are become the time clock of the battle that this happened, that happened. So that way, you know, the reader can sync everything up. It works, it works great. But yeah, I definitely think keeping it, you know, keeping it relatable to the characters in your plot and how you're building it to make sure it's, it's fitting what's going on in the, uh, in your story. You don't need to throw in, you know, 16 different battles. There's no magic recipe. But I, like I said, I think it would make sense if someone's going to be learning to use their powers, that you should see some displays of it, even if it's just practice before they get to the big, big scene where they have to be at least a good enough master to hopefully win.

Jesper (14m 27s): Yeah, that makes sense. Uh, I also picked out from the Facebook group that, uh, uh, James had some trouble coming up with a title for his novel or maybe, Oh, I should rather say he had three different titles and then he wanted people's opinion on which one people thought the best. And he actually, he got a, a lot of votes on that pole there. Uh, and there was also a clear winner among his three different options. So I think that's great. And I really like how the authors in the amwritingfantasy Facebook group helping each other out with stuff like this.

And, uh, I did not vote myself for one of the options, but instead I actually pointed him to watch our episode 37 of this podcast since we actually covered that topic at great length there on how to pick titles for you on novels, if any of our listeners, yeah, go ahead. I say that's just what I was going to say. It's like, did he not listen to our, our podcast I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he was too busy or something, but, uh, but he did the, he did reply back and say he wants, he would go back and listen to it.

So, uh, so that was good. I mean, not every people have, are subscribing like me, you know, the, the different podcasts I listened to, I listened to every single episode, but that's not everybody. So, and maybe it's going to tie into our topic of being overwhelmed as well, but, uh, but what I was gonna say before is that if any of our listeners are interesting in joining a group of fantasy authors, you can just head on over to Facebook and then search for M writing fantasy among the groups there and then you will find us.

Yeah. Getting into today's topic, I think first of all, I must share in full transparency that I've never really felt overwhelmed myself. So, uh, please note that I'm not saying that to, to make those who do feel overwhelmed feel worse or to sort of raise myself above them. I, I'm only saying it so that our listeners are aware that my advice on this topic might not be as good as yours. Autumn that's not a problem. I think I am surprised. I can't imagine not feeling overwhelmed at some point with that.

How did PAX writing but you are so organized. It doesn't surprise me, I think you. But then again, I also know being an organized person, usually myself, that when the cookie crumbles and you're an organized person, Oh my goodness, it's disaster. It's like going into a kid's play pen where they had a tantrum and everything falls down. So I hope you never feel overwhelmed because I think when are, if you're the point person and the foundation of a lot of things in your life and when you crumble, it's bad.

So you stay where you're at and be a lot of crunch. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, there could be a lot of contract I've had, I've had employees, uh, who have suffered from both. I mean, some overwhelmed, but I, I've also had a few who actually went into full burnout. So I've seen what it looks like close by at close hand, you know, and it's, it's not good. Uh, so, but, but as far as understanding how it feels on one's own own body then, well, I can't really say much but, but I'll, I'll try and um, give some reflections here.

But uh, but I think, well you've been through a bit of a journey here recently autumn so maybe you want to set us up for this content a bit about what, what, what sort of in

Autumn (17m 50s): going on. Sure. Well, yes, if most people don't realize I've been a full time author, graphic artists and traveler around sort of the world, but mostly in North America because we have a small dog and we just don't want to abandon our furry child. We love her. Oh, you know, we ha we took him on because we love him, so we don't want to just drop them off and then go travel the rest of the world though. It's in us to do so. But we've been doing that for three years. Ever since I quit my job, a very good job.

Um, on my 42nd birthday, literally it was my last day in the office was my birthday. And so I gave my two week notice so that I can have a big birthday bash that involved the staff. I say goodbye to all my employees and walked out the door to, uh, kind of scary big world. And it's been a blast. We have traveled over a hundred thousand miles in the last three years in a variety of vehicles from a Jeep Rubicon sleeping in a ground tent to a land cruiser 80.

He was sleeping on a rooftop tent to now this four wheel camper that we have. And, but it's, it's coming I think to an end, but I'm not sure we're in a transition period. And when you're in a transition period, it's, I equate it to like, you're walking in this really Misty veil. If you don't even really know where you are, you're just, you're in this thick, dense mist and you're walking sometimes in circles, sometimes you're just kind of feeling your way and nothing has come clear yet where my next chapter is going to be a what we're going to do.

I mean, I know there's things in me, the things I miss. I'm a huge foodie. I love cooking and I really miss, you know, having a kitchen and having, you know, making food and all those kitschy thing. You know, I wouldn't have a bookshelf with my own books. I don't even have a whole set of all my own books. I have to go to my mom's house to see my books. I kind of want that. So there's a lot of desire is am and Adam feels the same way. My husband, he's an outdoor person and outdoor guide and it's kind of, you know, we've enjoyed our travel, but it's kinda hard to, uh, be that to other people, to work maybe in a job where he's guiding like kayak tours or hiking tours.

Unless you're in a place that didn't, you know you can do that. So there's a lot of this stuff that we kind of were excited to put on hold and toss it to the wind and go to Alaska and see some amazing, see the Northern lights outside of Yellowknife. It was a fantastic journey. And there's places I want to go back to so badly, but at the same time we've also seen just about everything. So we don't want to just keep going in circles were kind of ready for something new and it's created a bit of an impact.

Jesper (20m 52s): Yeah, that, that was sort of what I was going to ask about here is it. So do you think it was all the, the feeling of we maybe want to do something differently? Was it, was that, do you think that was the trigger for starting to feeling overwhelmed or was it something else?

Autumn (21m 11s): I think it was the realization that we thought everything was smooth sailing and it was going fine. And you know, we'd just gotten this camper. So we were excited to travel in something that's a little more comfortable than a rooftop tent in a land cruiser where I was doing most of my writing in the passenger seat or at a picnic tables. It's always fun to design a fantasy map. Um, Jim Reed, this is, you design a fantasy map for another author while sitting at a picnic table.

So we were excited, but there's a lot of tasks that weren't getting done. Driving every day takes its own toll. Um, there was a lot of times where it's like, I wanted to go and do something, but I really needed to sit and write. I mean, I'm an author. This is a real business. And just, I felt a lot of internal pressure, pressure from the expectations I had for myself, the expectations of wanting to meet the needs of my clients when maybe I should have just said, you know what, it's going to be another week or so.

Yeah, sorry. Speaking of the small furred devil, Hey. Yeah. But yeah, so you know, the expectations of people I work with and even wanting to, you know, I write with you and spend time with you that I w you know, we have our own things we're working on. We're working on courses and books and all these things going on, plus my own personal writing and uh, you know, just willing to draw. And I think it all just became too many expectations.

Jesper (22m 48s): Yeah. So it sounds like it may be, it was more like, uh, uh, built up over time rather than something's suddenly happening or whatever.

Autumn (22m 56s): Yeah. I think, um, I think that's usually, cause I am the rock in my relationship. I'm usually the one who can go through anything and get things done. And so when I get off the rails, it's kind of a huge hip cup in our lives that, Oh geez, you know, the bedrock just had an earthquake and now what do we do when your not feeling as motivated and excited and creative and just passionate about what you're doing when you show up and you're like, Oh, I gotta work on this today, don't I?

Yay. Yeah. So I think it was, uh, for me it's always a slow summer when I have a little breakdown and I always joke that, you know, I have one or two funky days every year, but this is, this has been going on for a month or more and it's, you know, it's getting better now because I'm actively managing it, but it's still going on. I mean, I'm still stuck in my current work in progress. I like get chapped. I've been at chapters five, six, somewhere in there for a month and a half and I can usually pound out, you know, maybe not 5,000 words a day, but two, 3000.

Like I said, writing is my job and I just, I write, I have a minimum minimum goal that I write, even if it's like I've got a ton of other things I'm working on, I try to at least write 500 words just to keep the story going. I have it all plotted out. I want to, I've, you know, my, my writer, author newsletters, I have my readers that they kind of know what's going on and they want to see what's coming up next in the story. I want to have a publication date that I've promised and I did. I pushed forward and I kept writing and the other day I finally just looked at it and said, I'm just not going to pretend like I'm happy with this.

And I won't say a deleted it, but I took it and I moved it to an outtake folder and I'm back to where I was a month ago staring at the screen going, Oh, I just need to make this scene. If I can just get this scene to click together, I know I can move forward. But it just hasn't clicked yet. No. But how did you recognize the fact that you were feeling overwhelmed if it was sort of building up over time and almost sneaking up on you? How did you recognize that this is, this is what I'm feeling?

I think it's just a matter of at some point being honest, like maybe sitting down, I don't know if I was sitting down with Adam, we, he, we, he and I talk a lot, obviously, uh, almost 20 years of marriage. Um, we've built houses together and fixed houses and lived in a camper together, um, for a hundred thousand miles. So we talk a lot. He's my best friend and I think just saying, Hey, this is, you know, nothing's working. I'm feeling stuck.

And I think for me it was really like when I, my writing is stuck, my art was stuck. Um, getting anything done was stuck and I'm, and he started saying, well, you know, it sounds like you're overwhelmed. You sometimes you need that outside perspective. And then I know I wrote you an email saying, I just am not getting done the things I want to get done that I've said that, you know, these are the important tasks. We've got a head for us and I just don't know what to do. And you always, always, you're like the best writing partner and business partner ever.

Yesware, you'll always come back and be like, no, you know, you need to take care of yourself. So I mean everyone, everyone I've talked to you that I said I'd need more time to work on something. It has been fantastic. No one's like, Oh really? I needed that yesterday. I think. Um, yeah I think a lot of the times is expectations. When we think well the what we're holding ourselves to, what we think should be going on in our lives and it's just not happening. And it's that association, that mistake that really messes things up and messes up.

You know, what we're doing with our lives and how things are going. And that's what gets us off track. And it's sometimes just, you know, talking to the people in our lives so that they know that, you know, it's not that big of a deal. You know, it can give you breathing room. And that's one of my biggest advices as if you're feeling stuck and you're feeling overwhelmed, that you just need to go and talk to the people in your lives. Talk to at least one person. Cause you will immediately start feeling at least a little better cause it's not all bottled up inside of you.

You need to at least say Hey either if you, even if you can't say I need help, you can just say, I just need to, you know, take a break. I need to go take a nap. I know that's one of my biggest signs is I usually like to get up in the morning and right. And the day that I was like, I had to rather stay in bed and screw what I'm working on and sleep for another hour, then go tackle this scene that I can't get through. Am I'd rather do anything than that.

I when I start avoiding my laptop, which is my nephew am who's a computer engineer by the way, jokes that I'm more attached to my laptop then anything else in my life, he's, he'll come up and be like, what I see you don't have your laptop on right now. Um, you know, he would literally tease me that, Oh my God, I cannot believe I'm witnessing you without this other object that I thought was permanently attached to you. So, uh, when I'm like going, no, I done with that right now.

I need to walk away from that right now that that is a sign that there's something big going on in life.

Jesper (28m 45s): Yeah. And I, and I think, at least from what I have seen with, uh, with employees and stuff like that, you know, it's first of all, I think it is really important to, to spot the warning signs when they are there because some people just don't see the warning signs and, or they don't listen to their body and that don't feel, feel it before it's too late and that that's, that's how you end up in the complete burnout. And that's sort of the worst thing that can happen. So I fully agree with what you said there before about speaking to people about how you're feeling and, and realigned some of expectations with other people because often as you said, I, I believe that if you are honest with people around you and saying, I'm, I'm just feeling overwhelmed and I need a bit of breathing space, at least if most people would understand that.

And, and S, you know, say don't worry about it. Notice and as soon as you get those confirmations, then at least you can sort of take that pressure off of your shoulders and say, okay, well other people understand and they're not expecting me to do something tomorrow and I have that breathing space. Then you can also start to allow yourself that breathing space. And I think that that's important. Um, but I also see from, uh, from past experiences with employees. I've also seen a few factors and you mentioned some of them already there, but a few factors that I've seen happening is if people, uh, struggling with setting boundaries, meaning that they know when to say no to some, some task or project or whatever.

Because I still, I simply don't have enough time for this, for example. Uh, but then the day they ended up saying yes because they want to please everybody. Then usually those are the ones where you can easily hit down that route of starting to feel more overwhelmed. And if you then don't recognize the science, then you end up in a burnout because you S you have a to do list that are miles long and there's just no Intuit and you're maybe working yourself too hard as well. Because then that's the other part that you mentioned about sleeping. Because I think, well, exercise can help us well, but above all, you need to get your sleep.

Um, and to get your sleep on a regular schedule if you can, meaning if as much as you can, going to bet the same time getting up in the morning at the same time every day. I, I'm, I'm pretty religious about that myself. Um, but, but it, it makes a huge difference if you get your sleep, if you don't get your sleep, especially when you have those really long to do list. And then you start saying, okay, I just need to work more hours, then I'll get it done right. And then you start working 16 hours a day or 18 hours a day or whatever. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit there, but, but you get the point, you know that then you're on the, you're on the wrong path or start as soon as you start doing all that.

Autumn (31m 25s): Absolutely. And that's, it's definitely so easy to do. I mean, I know what it's like to be someone who tackles all these, all the big projects. I mean, usually it's just, you know, my meat and gravy and what I want to be working on. But you can't always be the person bearing all the weight and getting it all done. Everyone deserves a break. Everyone deserves a vacation. And I think when you finally realize that, you know, you do need to set boundaries, even if it's like, okay, it's an hour or two a night and guess what, you like five o'clock or something, uh, you know, the computer's going off and I'm going to spend some time with my husband.

Or especially since I do this full time. I mean, like I said, my nephew jokes that I'm on the laptop all the time, 12 to 18 hours a day. Well that's not doable. I mean we've been traveling around the United States and there's been times Adam's like, just just put it away or just come, we'll go do a walk. Don't, don't keep doing this. I don't, you don't want your memory of where we've been to be. You look at your laptop screen and I do think that's very important and so I know just overall of like what I could have done the last three years.

I feel like some things have slipped because we were, we were traveling and I was enjoying it, but it was also a of suddenly going, I think some of our transition time right now is like, well, you know, we need more time to focus on our businesses and our what we're doing to make them grow because the bit of time they're getting right now is not enough. But it is. I would say my number one thing is it after talking to people is to be kind to yourself. Everyone's got to have bad days.

It's fine. You just need to be gentler. Like even my niece was just saying this, Kayla to me as well, that it's, you just need to be kind to yourself. Yes. The writing's not going well. Well you know, I'm not meeting my word count goals. I'm behind on my schedule is that, you know, giving myself pressure like that is not going to make me feel better, is going to make me feel worse and I'm going to backslide into being in a dark place, which is not where I want to be. So I need to be kind to myself and just recognize it.

And to me it's, it's basically embracing the fact that I know this time is difficult as it is as difficult. You know, I'm walking in a mist and I have no idea what next month we'll even bring much less where I will be in two or three months. I just know something has to change. We haven't found it yet, but this transition time is fleeting. It will end. This is not forever. And there's sort of an acceptance of that and an embracing and just saying, Hey, this is only right now.

Yeah, I'm not writing well right now, but it will get better. I just need to keep, if not keep working like a for the scenes I just deleted or didn't lead. Like I said, I never delete anything. I move it to an outtake folder so that I can, if I changed my mind, I can go back and there are some good nug nuggets in there that I've already pulled out of it. But I know this one scene is just like, I feel like I am doing, doing novice author stuff like the throwing up minor obstacles. I have nothing to do with the plot just to make it, just to have something to write.

And so instead of doing that, I got rid of all those little minor obstacles and I'm back to the main scene and I literally basically started journaling to myself in my chapter. Obviously it will be deleted later, but it's like why is this scene happening? What needs to happen here? How does this gonna relate to something later? How does it fit in the plot? I got out my diagrams of plot, the seven steps of story structure and how that integrates with character arcs and made sure everything was lining up. And you know, I'm starting to see the importance of where this scene is and why it has to happen.

And so it does fit in. It just has felt so pointless and I want to get beyond it. I haven't gotten there yet, but I also know so I'm not writing the actual story, but I'm sitting there at least trying to figure out where the problem it is I'm having with it. And I know some of the problem is I realized I'm just not in love with this character. Honestly I feel like doing something I've told everyone not to do and switch to a different story that I'm more passionate about, even though I said is the next series I'm going to write and I don't think I'm the, I don't think I'm going to do that yet.

Realizing that the character is not working for me, I can look at it a little bit more and say why? You know, what? What do I need to do to make this character more interesting to me? Because if it's not interesting to me and I'm writing a flat character, then it's not going to be interesting to my readers. So you know, you start pulling apart these little threads and when your whole life is bound up in a big ball of threads, it helps to am to pull it apart, pull apart your creativity because if you get something working on one front, it'll often, you know, start moving on other fronts and I've definitely seen that.

I mean I know by seeing taking a back seat and trying to take a few days off and just look over everything I've got going on, I can see some disconnects where it's like I've done this and I've done this over here and I never put the funnel, the little connector together to tell the people that this is done and Hey, I also have this group that I should probably tell him they should get together and they should probably know about this. So it's definitely you start seeing those connections that you're not making because you've been so busy that you're just getting the minimum done just because you then can say it's done and you can move on to the next task.

And also speaking to us, go ahead.

Jesper (36m 57s): No, I just wanted to say when, when you said that that was the, that was the other thing I was also thinking about was that, uh, efficiency plays a big party and, and I'm, I'm, I'm all for if you shouldn't see it, you know, uh, it's a like a religion almost for me, but um, but what I meant by that is that when you are training yourself and you're working way too hard and you're trying to force things, that's also where you often end up in those situations whereby actually use half the time you're spending on something is, is nonproductive time.

And what I mean by that is, is that you end up, for example, as you just said, you start writing stuff and then it's like, what is this? It doesn't make any sense are, and then you, maybe you put it in a different folder or delete it or whatever people do that doesn't really matter, but it's still wasted hours of work. Right. Whereas, and I, I do realize that this is way easier said than done, but, but if, if, if you were able or one we're able to cut themselves a bit of Slack and try to get their sleep and, and uh, and those things that we talked about before, then you would also find that your productive hours I actually producing stuff that you can use so you're not spending twice as much many man hours doing the same thing then then you have to, right.

I mean you have to sleep thing is a really important thing. And also trying to cut yourself a bit of flack, as we said a few times now to sort of put that demand on yourself. Right? Yes. Sometimes working more hours and harder is actually not the solution.

Autumn (38m 33s): No, I definitely eating and I did, I didn't realize it was, I believe a Japanese technique, but it's one I've sort of came upon on my own and obviously of course no one's ever, no one's ever the first inventor of the wheel. Someone else came up with it before you, but it's, you can only have three tasks on your to do list at a time. Cause I definitely, yeah, I've definitely, I'm one of those people who have a million projects and I have all these things I want to do, but you can't really do all of them well.

And when you have that many weighing on you, you do feel the stress. So basically, yeah, you might have a list of all those tasks that need to be done, but then you have an active task lists and there's only three things on that. Those are the, these are the three things you're going to work on today or your three big projects, whatever they are. And nothing gets moved out of the other list until it's on the active. And how you talk about making boundaries and stuff. There's your boundary. You just kind of say, I'm sorry, these are my three tasks.

Nothing else is going to be a move to the other list into one of those is done and you ain't it. So it's definitely taught me to be like, these are the three things I'm working on. These are my three priorities. I am working on those. When one of those is finished or one of those, one of those is at a stage where I can move it aside, I will choose what something else to go and that is all I'm doing right now. And if you don't like it, find someone else because that is just how I have to live my life right now.

Jesper (40m 6s): Yeah. The, the, the variation. I've heard of that one that you did you just mention, this is basically almost on a more granular level in the way that, the way I've heard of this, that you put three things on your to do list, but they can only be things that you will get done today and nothing else. So basically it could be like, okay, I'm gonna write chapter number eight for example. Uh, that, that could be a thing. Right? But he cannot say finish novel number

Autumn (40m 34s): unless you're like 500 words away from the ed.

Jesper (40m 38s): Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Because otherwise it's like a maybe a month or two or three or four or five months long to do listing however long people take to write a novel. Right. But eh, but so it has to be something that you will complete today and all three things has to be something that is achievable today. So, um, you have to be realistic in your own goal setting and then when you go to, to bet at or, or once you're done with your work day or whenever it suits you, then you can make your list of three new things for tomorrow. But then you're feeling good about it because you know that you're making progress.

But you're also noting noting or knowing that you're taking off stuff on the to do list because I managed by three things today. So it is a way where if you are prone to feeling overwhelmed at that, that might be helpful.

Autumn (41m 21s): Definitely. And that's why I think when I, that's why I use a word count goal, especially right now. I mean to used to be like write half a chapter, which is fantastic when you have the time. But when life's busy or you just, you know, there's going to be other things you need to focus on that just saying, you know, I'm going to write 500 words. And like with Scrivener, we both use Scrivener just watching that word count and say, okay, I hit my 500 you know, if I've had a little bit more time or you know, if I can put a little bit more in. Great. But that's it. And I've also definitely come to the realization that, you know, even time management, like saying, um, I working on this till 10:00 AM or till 11:00 AM and then no matter where I am in this project, I've got to move on to something else today.

And so it's just literally starting to manage that a lot more actively. Where before it seems like things recently just kinda got away with any things were taking longer than they should have. So I'm just simply, you know, if it's going to take longer than it's going to have to get worked on tomorrow and making sure it happens that way. You know, taking a couple of days off every once in a while, taking the weekends off sometimes now or I decided weekends are more my time. So you know, I'll probably right, but I have some courses I signed up for and maybe just some fun stuff, the graphic design or Hey, getting away from my computer or maybe doing something else.

It really, we're not designed to work seven days a week, even if we're passionate about it. I've, I've met and talked to so many people that, you know, I see that they've kind of burned out in their own business and they want to, you can just hear it in their voice. They need a break and I don't want to see that happening to me or to us. So I've definitely learned that, you know, if you don't start taking breaks now, if you don't mix it up a little bit, that it's going to be, you know, you're going to face that down the line because you do get burned out with things and you've got to find a way keeping it new and fresh and challenging.

And usually that's by letting it go a little bit. Yeah, indeed. So, uh, I don't know, is that, it's that sort of a wrap around the topic of feeling overwhelmed, a autumn on or did you have some more stuff to share about your experience? I think that'll do it. I just going to say to people though, I mean, you're not alone and remember that whatever you're going through right now, it's temporary and that no one else knows what you're going through unless you tell them.

I always joked that I wish that if you had a cold sort of like you have over the weekend, yes. For that you turned a different color. I mean, if someone looked at you and your purple or share truth, they would know you're sick. But you know, especially our internal, our mental landscape, no one knows what's going on unless you speak up. So, you know, that's what like our Facebook group for this is, uh, you know, topping. I've talked to a couple authors about not being able to figure out this chapter. I've talked to friends and nieces and other people and anyone who's willing to listen to me talk about writing and it's, it's important.

It's important to be able to reach out to fellow writers who will. Everyone's going to know what you're going through, and if they have an experience themselves, they will relate and it's part of the human condition to, you want to kind of clam up when you're feeling vulnerable, but the best thing you can do is reach out to somebody and say, yeah, I just in a rough spot and you'll be surprised at how really wonderful most people are.

Narrator (44m 57s): So next Monday I hope I have an excellent interview lined up for you, but I'll see how it goes. So I'll keep it as a surprise for now if you like what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to support the amwritingfantasy podcast. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn and Jesper on patrion.com/amwritingfantasy for as little as a dollar a month.

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