59.4K
Downloads
158
Episodes
In today’s publishing landscape, you can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don’t even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join the two bestselling fantasy authors, Autumn and Jesper, every Monday, as they explore the writing craft, provides tips on publishing, and insights on how to market your books.
Episodes
Monday Oct 07, 2019
The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 41 – Should you be using free ISBNs?
Monday Oct 07, 2019
Monday Oct 07, 2019
Have you noticed those free ISBNs that come with distributors or with Amazon's paperbacks?
Is there a catch to using them and you should run like a maverick demon on a rampage to purchase "safe" ISBNs directly ... or are they really OK to use and might be saving you up to $125 a book?!
Join Jesper and Autumn as they lay out what an ISBN is and does as well as what the deal actually is with those free ones!
Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday.
SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST!
Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review.
Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy.
For as little as a dollar a month, you’ll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going.
Read the full transcript below.
(Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).
Narrator (2s): You're listening to the amwritingfantasy podcast in today's publishing landscape, you can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing join to best selling authors who have self-published more than 20 books between them. Now onto the show with your hosts. Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt.
Jesper (30s): Hello. I am Jesper and I'm Autumn, this is episode 41 of the amwritingfantasy podcast and we are going to talk about ISDM ISBM numbers. I almost stumbled the same bed ESPN numbers and uh, whether you should buy you own ISBNs numbers or if you should use free once. So yeah, we'll get into explaining all the details about what ISB and numbers are and all that. But, uh, I think, can I first say that I actually had a very busy weekend here because my oldest son had his birthday this weekend.
He turned 11 Oh, vial. That's fun. Always almost a teen. It's coming up. Yeah. So, so that, that's the bat. But we had, we had the house full of guests, so that, that was great. Uh, w w we had great fun and it was nice. And uh, my brother and his fiance came already on Friday and then they stayed all weekend and then the other guests came on Saturday. Uh, and then, uh, yeah, some, some, some of them of course from left in the middle of the night and a Sunday morning, uh, my brother and his fiance had to, to go to, because they are picking up a dog, so they have to drive to pick up a dog.
So I had to get up early to make breakfast for them and all that. So I was really, really tired. Or there's something about a group of kids, especially 11 years old with all that energy that can really make you feel tired, I think. Yeah, absolutely. And then of course when you have to wait on your guests for for like two full days, you know, I don't know for me that, I mean, I, I actually think some people enjoy doing that and I do enjoy the company and all that, but, but waiting on people is sort of not maybe my favorite activity, but uh, of course you'd do it anyway.
Autumn (2m 28s): So, but it was very, it was very nice. Oh, that sounds really good. I houseful of family is definitely fun, but I'm like you where I, you know, my parents, we were just visiting with them and sometimes it's like, Oh, you're having a party in the basement. I just, that's a lot of their friends. All their friends are, you know, they're super nice to us and they often have their kids, you know, are mostly my age to sometimes the kids tag along and it's great, but it can be so overwhelming and you know, so much time of it, I'm like, I need to go to the woods so little while
Jesper (3m 6s): w that was also why when it came to Sunday, you know, we just decided to, I'm going to relax on the couch and basically do nothing. So actually we decided to, uh, to watch the first episode of a dark crystal eight of resistance with the kids. And I believe you told me that you watched it too, didn't you?
Autumn (3m 25s): Yes. I've only watched the first one. I'm giving it a try out. I think I have to watch a second one, but it's, what did you think of it? It's okay.
Jesper (3m 34s): No, but yeah, but I think, well, first of all night, my wife noticed that it was, it's in fact a prequel to the 1982 Jim Henson film, the dark crystal. So that was quite interesting to me. Uh, but I think I would say that if I wasn't watching it with the kids, I probably wouldn't watch it to be honest. I mean, I think it was OK and, but there was, there was quite some info dumping going on. Like, like you can almost tell that that's because they want to make sure that the younger audience understands what's happening and all that.
Whereas as an adult, what's in that? That's a bit like OK. Uh, you could probably do that a bit better. Um, so, but, but it's OK it's, it's, it's fine, but I don't think I would be watching it on my own to be honest.
Autumn (4m 20s): Yeah. That's where I, that's how we both felt after watching. The first one is am I want to get beyond the info dumping, which again, they're building the world that existed before the original movie. So there's a lot of information to share, but the puppets just didn't work for me in the lack of facial expressions that how far like CGI as com and what they could have done instead of the puppets. Not that I don't want to diss traditional because I love Brian Froud. He's one of my favorite artists. And he created those, all of those puppets and the styles and the costumes, but it just, I would have actually preferred it as CGI if they digitized all the puppets and then created expressions and things.
The voices and actions alone just didn't do it for me. But I want to watch one more. So I get past all the info dolphin thing and see if I get swept up in the story. Cause I know a lot of other authors and a lot of people I've talked to really have but it's not there for me yet. So I might watch one more. And otherwise, you know, I'm back at Lucifer the first.
Jesper (5m 27s): I still hate it. It gets better, I swear. But, uh, but I actually, to be honest, I, I, I think it's quite cool that it's puppets, uh, because it's, it's different compared to what you're used to seeing in puppets nowadays is it's pretty where it is. So I thought that that's actually cool. I mean, I get, I get your point in Iowa. I can certainly agree that the fact that you can't see face mimics is it's a bit, let's say weird because we're not used to that. But I still think it's quite cool.
Autumn (5m 59s): Yeah. I'll have to, like I said, I want to give it another try or two and see if I can get into it. But the first one didn't catch my interest so we'll see. Yeah. So this week I've actually been doing a lot of reflecting because the 19th would have been my brothers, I can't believe its 51st birthday. So he was four and a half years older than me. He actually passed away in 2000 oddly enough, the day I met my husband, of course he was just a guy I met. Um, so that's, I've been thinking about that a lot.
Sometimes I don't think about his birthday until like afterwards, but this year I just was visiting my mom and it's been in my mind and I've just been reflecting about how much not only did he miss because he actually choose, chose to take his own life. But how much that event changed me besides the fact I obviously met my husband, um, that same day as well. But I believe it or not, cause you've only known me, you know the class, Oh gosh, I don't know what four or five, six years. Yesper but we am you've probably known me as you a risk taker.
You've known me. I quit my job, my full time job. What do the two week notice to go travel the world. And you know, I've done some crazy things, but I was always the steady rock who never took risks in high school is very quiet and antisocial. And I realize how much, when you realize that life is short. Like my brother was only 30 when he passed away. I was 25. And how much, um, just realizing that, you know, life changes, there's so much out there.
What are you afraid of? Trying something scary for, you know, switching, leaving my last job where I wasn't happy to go explore and travel across the United States. I mean, what's going to happen? I might fail. I might have a blast. I might do both. I just realized that it really did change me into a much more of a risk taker, which is oddly what my brother was. So I think we actually would have gotten along. We fought like cats and dogs as kids, as teenagers. So I honestly think we would've gotten along so much better.
But it also, you know, I've talked to before that, you know, August has been a really kind of crazy, it was a crazy month. It's still kind of this 2019 I've said it a hundred times. I cannot wait to this year ends. But I also think that every time that, you know, things get bad, I still can't imagine making that choice. And I think about all the things my brother missed. Uh, his youngest daughter is, you know, we're, or her associates degree. His oldest son has graduated college and has an awesome job as a computer engineer.
Um, is young middle son. The youngest son actually is, uh, in the air force and re-upping to another role. You know, another four or five, six years at with them is just an is. His other daughter, his oldest daughter, actually has a daughter and it's just like, wow, I live changes no matter what. When you have a bad day and you're frustrated and everything else that's going on, I just still can't imagine making that choice and not sticking out to see what's going to happen next.
So it's, yeah, it's been such a reflective week for me. I guess I'm sitting alone in the Adirondacks because my husband's away at a training and this is obviously I need his distraction because my mind is on very deep thoughts.
Jesper (9m 28s): Yeah, I can, I can hear that. Do you think it was because you were at your parents' place? Was that why you started thinking about it? Oh, what, what do you think you all of a sudden starting have started to have these reflections?
Autumn (9m 40s): Probably, I think it was there. We were talking about my mom seemed a little sad and with my nephew who lives with them and, uh, we were trying to figure out why and it just dawned on me, I'm like, it's September, it's my brother's birthday coming up. And she always gets sad this time of year and everyone's just kind of paused. And so I think, yeah, that's what was kind of, when I figured that out. Um, like I said, I usually think of it after the fact because life is so busy. But this year I've got some quiet time. And like I said, it's been a hard year, but, so it's just on my mind, I think.
Yeah.
Jesper (10m 14s): Yeah. It's, it's interesting. I mean, I know it doesn't work like this, but I wish I could tell people thinking about, you know, taking their own life to, um, to think ahead. You know, it, it's, especially if you're, I mean, if you're, if you're rather young and, and here I'm also talking about people maybe 50 or whatever, right? I mean, you have so many years to go and it's just, and who knows what's going to happen in 10 years. Maybe something awesome will happen and you will be so sad that you, you know, ended it before it happened or whatever.
You know, it's, it's hard to know, but I know it doesn't work like this because my wife works on a suicide hotline as well, so she talks to these people on the phone, so I know it's not like you can just tell them, yeah, yeah, yeah. You should be feeling better because later on it will be better. You know? It doesn't work like that, but I just wish it would.
Autumn (11m 7s): I agree. I, I fell at the time, I mean, I was 25 he was 30 that he thought everything was over at 30 and when I hit 30 it was really kind of like band. I feel like a kid and I don't know what's going on. I can't imagine how my brother felt like everything was over at 30 and now I'm 45 and you know, sometimes I feel it in my bones, but I still mentally am like 20 something and I know talking to my parents, like you telling me don't get old. And of course they're in their seventies and I know mentally they think they're in their thirties and twenties I don't think, you know, our minds stay at this act of healthy level and our bodies are the ones that let us down.
I just can't imagine feeling like mentally it's, I'm done. I just can't get there. I'll just work, create a new world and write another book and get lost in it. I think that's my answer to everything.
Jesper (11m 54s): Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know how we're going to get on from it. This was like, this is like a topic once you wouldn't start a podcast because now we can't get anywhere else. Well I, Oh my God. Well I understand why you might be thinking about those things. That's certainly not a, it's not easy. Oh week on the internet with the amwritingfantasy. Podcast okay, well autumn we have to try to move on to something else. Move on.
Actually
Autumn (12m 26s): I think I said I, it's actually in its own way empowering to me because I have a, I have a low bar that is so low that you know, I can't reach it so I know things are going to get better no matter what happens.
Jesper (12m 40s): Perfect. At least a on on a more happy note if we can go there. We had so many comments coming in on Patrion from both Sade and Irish and uh, guys please keep it going. It, it's awesome to read your notes and comments on, on some of, well you actually just, I think both of you actually started your own a threat and just to share some info, um, and you also basic commenting on podcast episodes and whatnot, so that's great. And uh, please keep that going and well for the rest of you, if you want to check, check out Patrion then there's a link in the show notes.
So we'd go over there and, and check it out. We do give you a ton of rewards if you, if you join us there.
Autumn (13m 23s): Absolutely. And yeah, it's been so much fun with all the commenting. So it's been it, it makes it really engaging and that's kind of fun. And I actually wanted to bring up um, another place that I find engaging you. You know this. Yes. For that. I'm not the biggest fan of Facebook. I might have said that to you before.
Jesper (13m 43s): Well it might have come up just like once or twice maybe. Okay.
Autumn (13m 48s): And I think it's like every email and we have to do something on Facebook. But you know, it's where so much connection is going well. It's so funny cause another author that I really admire admire Angela Ford. She's part of a group and she's probably a designer and really good with computers and she and her friend created a new app called indie author lifestyle. And it's a new forum, really, really fun for actually for authors. And so I've been on there.
And it's funny cause the intro question I thought was really funny that she, you know, you join and you get a question right away to get you to thinking it's what's your, what's your biggest struggle when it comes to self publishing? And it's been really fun reading all the comments about, you know, some of it's just working on getting editing done on a tight budget, marketing and sales motivation, motivating myself to edit and, you know, tuning out distractions. So actually I've been having a am way more fun. I know I really need to give back into our own Facebook group because the comments there are awesome, but if there happens to be anyone else out there like me who kind of feels your skin crawl just the little bit when you get on Facebook, Hey, check out indie author lifestyle because it's been, you know, in just a few days that I've been part of it, it's been a huge vibrant community and very chatty, very easy to get into.
Um, unlike Facebook and it's not stealing all my data. Yay. Yeah.
Jesper (15m 21s): Well, yeah, that, and it's a good question that they're asking there because you can get a myriad of different answers to that question because everybody will, well, of course a lot we'll share, but, but there's going to be a very, very many variations on what people struggling with. Oh yeah, that's a good starting question. But actually I have to say that am in the amwritingfantasy Facebook group just today alone, I approved 11 new joiners. So that's, so that's awesome. And the last few days, um, there's been a lot of people joining so that, that's really great.
And I can see a lot of comments going on, a lot of threats getting started and people asking questions and other people's replying. So it is, it is in fact quite a good community that that's going on there. Even for those who doesn't like it.
Autumn (16m 9s): I enjoy it whenever I get on there. And I love seeing am some of the comments I know recently even, I think it was Zane, somebody's Irish, one of them was mentioning even how great the amwritingfantasy Facebook group is. So I have to admit, it is also it's own vibrant community. So I, yeah, I need to get back in there too, especially when you're approving 11. And I haven't even been in there yet today. So, oops. Yeah.
Jesper (16m 32s): Yeah. Well we are several people doing this so that it works out. But it's good because it feels to me like, um, and, and maybe, maybe I'm going to regret saying this at some point, if it turns out that I'm not right, but, but maybe we've sorted past a critical mass of people now because it feels like there is a lot more activity than they used to be just like a year ago. Um, so, so there's quite a lot of people in there. I think we are getting close to 1000, 300 people in the group, so that's pretty good.
Um, and of course, if, if you listening, uh, interested in joining a group of fantasy authors, just sharing stuff about writing or marketing or whatever it may be, basically more or less, you can post everything in there and people will jump on it and reply and give you their thoughts. So you can just search for amwritingfantasy in the group section of Facebook and then you will find us and uh, just put in your request to join and we will approve you quite easily.
Autumn (17m 40s): ISB numbers. Oh, that's right. Sounds complicated. OK Oh, it is in so many ways. At least it feels like a little bit. It's am to me, almost a throwback to the real traditional publishing days. And so there's a lot of kind of misunderstandings in the indie publishing world about what an ISB and number is and do you need it and why are they so, gosh, darn expensive. I mean, talk about one of your biggest hurdles to self-publishing.
I'm surprised somebody hasn't actually written down having to buy ISBNs numbers.
Jesper (18m 17s): Oh yeah, yeah. True. But maybe if I just set us off a bit here with the STR has a short definition thing just so that everybody's on the same page and then I think you can lead us into it because I know that you have researched this a lot more than I have, but as usual, I have opinions about everything so I can still see opinions. But, uh, but maybe just so to put us, everybody on the same page here so everybody knows what we're talking about. So I S P N stands for international standard book number and basically the ISBM number is a way to identify books, I guess you could say.
And an I SBN is assigned to eat separate edition and variation of a publication. So this could for example, be a paper back and then if you have a hardcover edition of the same book, then for example, they will, those two will have the different ISP and numbers and getting ESPN numbers assigned, uh, that is handled by each country separately. So essentially what that means is that each country has their own ISP and eight inches that is responsible for assigning ISB and numbers for that country or territory.
So it's doesn't matter what you know, language your publication is in. So for example, if I want to get a ISPN number here in Denmark, even though I'm writing English, I still have to buy it from the Danish agency. So I think that's the definition is out of the way. And hopefully that puts us on the same page about what we're talking about here.
Autumn (19m 52s): Yes, that's a really good introduction. I mean, I remember the first time I heard about ISB and numbers. I mean I had volunteered and worked the library in my high school and really hung out at the library a lot in college. And I thought I knew everything like the Dewey decimal system and you know, but then I had picked up a book in England that a friend desperately wanted, but of course there's an English copy and blah blah blah. And finally we figured out we just needed a search by the ISBM number and then she could find it and order it. And of course, you know, that was the dark days of like 1996 so the internet was not quite as good as it is now.
And Amazon book search didn't exist back then. But that's when I realized that ISB numbers, those little numbers in the front of a book actually means something. And there's some really complicated parts. I mean they actually kind of tell you a lot of information about all written in like you know, about what it actually means. And I thought that was kind of interesting. So they're actually, they're at these day there. Is is an ISP and search though that makes it really easy to go and look for things.
So if you have an ISP and number, you can just go ahead and put it into a search and find your book. But some of those, uh, I know there's a lot of misinformation out there about what the ISBM number says and it's am. So, you know, some people say if you get a free one, because that's really the topic today, is do you actually need to go buy an ISP N number or can you use, um, Amazon? You know, when you do eBooks on Amazon, you can, you don't need one. You use an a S I N number, which is an Amazon number and it's just good for the Amazon what stores?
And then if you go through KTP to print a paper back or like I published, I do a lot of stuff on Smashwords but I know drafted digital as well. These other places will create, you know, give you a free is number. And so why wouldn't you use it the free one versus going and buying one. You know, why is there a difference? I know there's people on both sides of this fence. That's what I, that's what I'm wondering too. So I'm looking forward for you to tell me why I should buy one.
Oh, I'll see if I can change your mind. It will be hard because I'm actually playing the devil's advocate cause I've actually always used the free one too. But as you know, I've learned to am question everything. I used to just do what I was told and then big events happened in my life and now I don't believe a word anyone says into like, Oh and look it up myself. I must be that. That's a healthy attitude to be Isaac. So I mean, thank goodness I can do this. As a teenager, my parents would have gone gray so fast.
It's such a good kid. But so I'm gonna you know it's going to be interesting because there are some information in there and like I said there's some misinformation but I do use a free one too. And I know you do as well cause we've talked about this a lot. So there's a couple of neat things. So there's some stuff in there that tells you what language the book is published in and you can also find out what country it's for. There's some things that represent the title of the book. So that becomes a special unit of numbers as well.
There's a check digit, which is kinda like your credit card. There's always a check digit digit that they all kind of add up to or work to this one number or they know it's a fake and there's something in there that tells you who the publisher is. So that's sort of the only sticking point I can see between, or at least in this example are there are other sticking points. But the example of why you would or would not buy an ESPN. So if I use a free one from Amazon for my paperback book, it's going to say Amazon's the publisher.
If I'm a publisher or I wanted to say that I published my book, if I buy one, it will say that. So written there and almost like a meta tag for a website. It says who is the owner of the book or at least that copy of the book. So there is that. I don't know what you think about, you know, how important do you think it is to be able to say that you yes, Russ Schmidt created and made this book and all the way down to owning this little digital number or do you care that it says, you know, Amazon or Kobo or one of these other places is the digital publisher of your book?
No. Well I'll see if you can change my mind, but, but my point of view is basically that I could not care less and, and basically here's why. What I care about is selling books and I don't know of anybody being readers who goes on to, for example, Amazon and stopped typing in a puppet those names to figure out, I mean disregarded. This is self publishing, so just say you have published your book with random house for example.
I don't know of anybody who goes on to Amazon just says, I wonder which book I wanted to rent a random house book. I mean nobody does that so well, yeah, in this case then, because I always use the free a Amazon ISPN numbers. Then of course it will say that Amazon is the publisher, but I don't see that it makes any different whatsoever in terms of selling books or acquiring readers. I simply don't see it. I see. I don't disagree with you.
That's what's so hard about this conversation is I read the same thing and you know I double checked before I, I looked at the price tag of a single ISP in at $125. I mean, obviously if you're going to do this, there are ways of buying them in bulk of 10 or a hundred and considering you need one for every single different edition. So if you have an audio book, an ebook, and sometimes it's even by retailer, so you know you can have different numbers. So yeah, you, you, if you're going to publish, if you're going to need one, you're probably gonna need at least three or four for the exact same book, but in different formats.
So, and you have to realize sometimes that can be mobi file for Kindle versus an epoch bile. Some places are really specific. So that's the only other reason I've heard people complain about, you know, having these ISBNs, if you don't own it, if you own it, you can say when you submit your book to a place saying, this is the pub file, it goes with this ISBM or this is the ebook file. It goes with this ISP. And so you only have one for your ebook, one for your paperback, and one for your audio book where if you're doing sort of like what I'm doing, I'm going through a distributor.
So I have my Amazon one, the Amazon paper back one, and then I go through Smashwords and they give me an ISB and for all of those, but it's actually the exact same book, ebook file as the one that's an Amazon
Jesper (26m 44s): that has a different ISP, a number. So suddenly it's like I'm having, you know where like goodness, I didn't have to pay for these. I might have five, six, seven, eight different ISBNs numbers that point back to the exact same book. So some people say that looks so unprofessional. I think this might be the companies that are selling ISPN numbers, but I'm not sure. No, but that's also what I'm wondering because unprofessional in what way? I mean I can understand if you look, if you are a traditional publishing house and then you are using you, your is, well I'm going a bit of on assumptions here, but I am assuming that these, that they are using the ISB and numbers to track their global sales and all that stuff and they can probably split it out on territory depending on the country.
Um, indicator inside the ISPN numbers and whatnot. So they can use it to, to, to check their sales. And if I'm not mistaking as well, if you, for example, if you're talking about counting paperback sales or hopper, how cover sales towards something like the New York best times seller list or whatever it's called. What is it called out? Yeah, the USA today bestseller. That was for the New York times. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. If you, if you need to count your paperback and hardcover sales to, what's that?
I think you have to have a dedicated ISPN number. So everything that is just an Amazon ISPN number, I don't think that gets counted. So, so that's another thing. But I'm going a bit of memory here, but that's how I remember that it works. That does make sense. And I could see that being a key point. I would love to, I know a couple of people who put together some paperbacks are not paper bags, but bundles to make a run for the New York times bestseller list. And if I thought about it, I should send them an email and say, Hey gee, wouldn't you do this?
Do you just do the Amazon ASI en or do you actually go and buy an ISB N so that, you know, New York times can track it. That might be a good question to ask someone and come circle back or a little rounds of this one of these days. Yeah, to be honest, I, I don't like those bestseller lists because you can gain them. Uh, and, and then there was also, there's also some, you know, booksellers that gets counted or some bookstores that gets counted in terms of sales. And then there's others that don't.
So I have heard stories of authors figuring out which spoke, um, you know, bookstores actually have the sales counter to what the bestseller list and then get them to buy a ton of books with the agreement that you're going to buy them back afterwards. Oh my goodness. So they buy a ton of books. It gets counted. I think. Uh, I think that was how it worked. But anyway, somebody can prove me wrong here. You find this not understanding something, but how I remember it working was that, that you, you could sort of make some deals with those books.
Sale sales companies are bookstores and then basically got a lot of sales counted towards the best seller list. And yeah, there, there is articles on the internet, by the way, if you're interested, uh, the listener try to, uh, try to search for a gaming New York times bestseller list and then you'll find some stuff. But there it is possible to game the system. I don't really, that's why I like something like the am, the Amazon bestseller list I like a lot more because it is just based on sales.
It's just based on what people buy and there, there is nothing else to it. You cannot game it. You cannot get around it. If you don't sell any books, you're not on the list. It's that easy. Whereas for example, when we're talking about, um, ISPN numbers, for example, if you don't have the, uh, if the ISPN number yourself and it doesn't get counted, you could be selling like $1 million worth of books and never hit the list, right? So to me, then there's something wrong with the best seller list if, if, if it only counts a portion of the market
Autumn (30m 45s): and not to be jaded being in the United States of America, but everything's for sale here. So of course you can game the system to get to the New York times best seller list and the USA today, I mean, I've seen people, you know, usually the buy in for a bundle that's going to make a run at it as about a thousand dollars. So for $1,000 you can get together as one of these author groups that usually has about 20 authors. They put all that money into marketing and whatever else they have to do and boom, you get to put USA today or New York times bestseller after your name, once you hit the list.
And you know, that's great. But I have to say every single bit of research I've done and looked at, all of readers don't care. They care. If you have a good book, I mean, yeah, great. You can put USA today or you could put Amazon bestseller, that's all fantastic. You can put that after your name. But did you write a good book? That's usually what readers are looking at before they pick up your book. So I try not to take it, you know, it's whether or not you have a PhD after your name. It makes the author feel better.
Maybe it gives you that confidence boost that is worth $1,000 to go for but um, I haven't bought into one of those, so we'll see. I guess maybe I'm jaded that way. But another thing that I've heard about ISBNs, and this one's, I think I've already worked my way around to not believing it, but you have to tell me what you think of the sort of face value as a, supposedly libraries are becoming more important to the distribution of eBooks and overdrive is the largest supplier to schools and libraries in the world.
And they circulate more than 105 million eBooks in just 2014 but they also supply to retail stores and everything else. And what's required for overdrive is an ESPN. So, you know, you need to have an ISB and to be part of overdrive, but do you think having a free ISB is somehow holding
Jesper (32m 40s): you back from being recognized in libraries? Well, let's back a big, uh, I think we need to be really careful with, you know, 2014 numbers because 2019 markets, I'm massively different than 2014 ones. Um, and if we're looking at something like it, I mean, if you want your paperback or hardcover in, in the library, then I think it still holds true that you need the ISPN number.
Uh, you, for example, I'm and, and I know you do that too. Autumn I mean we have a print on demand via Amazon, right? Those folks just not get into the library. Um, but when you are distributing white and especially with eBooks, which is still growing in terms of from a library perspective, um, if you are publishing via draft two digital and use those as your distributor, they actually have several different am, I don't know if you call them funnels or whatever, but they have several different agreements, let's put it like that with libraries.
So it's quite easy to be honest. When you're, when you're done publish your ebook, draft two digital, you just sort of put a ticket in those boxes to say, yeah, I want to also distribute to these places and those ones, we'll put your book available at least to the library. But I have to say as well that this doesn't mean that you'll start seeing a ton of people boring your books because it's the same environment as us as it is on Amazon. There's a lot of books available and it's not like people in the library, all of a sudden your book, we'll just start a peeing in front of them and you will earn a ton of money from people.
Boring. It's not happening in way. At the end of the day, we're back to what we have said so many times before the money is in the email list and that's what you need to build. All this extra stuff is nice fluffy stuff to get your ebook into the library. But unless you are actively pushing for it, maybe telling people that, Oh by the way, do you know you can get my book at your library if you just go and search for the book or if you go and ask for it and whatnot, if you, if you don't actively drive it that way yourself, it's not gonna make any difference.
It's just going to be like selling books on Amazon. I mean, you can upload it to Amazon, but it doesn't sell on its own. That's very true. And you're right. Even smash for it. So that's why I kind of saw through that one one the date on the uh, facts for it. But also Smashwords does distribute to overdrive in, it has some deals with libraries. So I think am when I set up a lot of my distribution with Smashwords, I actually put on my books to libraries even cheaper, which I didn't realize. Most book publishers actually send out the libraries for like 60 or $70.
You know, the big publishing houses, that's how much they're making it. 60 or $70 for a certain period for book to be licensed
Autumn (35m 38s): to libraries. I'm like, man, I think I did 99 cents. So obviously, but again, it's also to get your name out there and there are, I've been reading about some tactics if you want to have your book distributed more than libraries, like you know how to send letters or you know, I travel around and I use a lot of libraries. Thank you for free internet. I love the library's United States and Canada. I'm like, Canton, no one's actually let you have drinks in them. Oh my gosh. I was like, he's in in the United States to actually carry a drink until a library. I love Canada.
But all you have to do is like you go up there and tell them, Hey, I'm an author in my books are available and they're really well rated. And Hey, if you go here, you can get a free, you know, it's only 90 cents or you can get a free one for the library. Just let me know and I'll happily give you a digital copy and you can, you know, work in or out. If you, if you're an author and you have a local library and you have not stopped in to tell them you're an author and you're a local author and give them an ebook please just go do it. You'll be so excited. It feels good to at least, you know, have something at the local library.
Jesper (36m 42s): Yeah. And uh, there is something to it that, uh, you should be pricing your library Burroughs higher than your sales on, on, for example. Amazon but, but again, once you, if you use something a distributor like draft two digital, and when you are setting your prices, it will actually give you some guy, you use some guidance in the module when you're setting prices and it'll tell you on average how much higher is the price for a book like this in the library and stuff like that. So you, you're not going in blind and you will get some support and help there in, in, in pricing it correctly.
But, but yeah, uh, library borrows does weren't higher pricing than, than sales on Amazon.
Autumn (37m 21s): Yes. It's, I know that now I'll have to look it back. What? I didn't smash words, but I'm not that worried that I'm somehow having the library's drain my, my sales, it's not a huge writing thing. And one of the things I have to admit that I really hadn't thought about with ISB and numbers, so they throw this around and they're, like I said, they're quite expensive. I mean, it's $125 for one. It's, I think around $200 for 10 and then is it 300 or something for more than a hundred it's something, it's probably a little more than that, but the price has changed a little bit.
But there's definitely some things, you know, you want to buy them in bulk if you did decide to buy them. But don't forget if you buy an ISBM number, you now need your own barcode because if you're doing a print book, you need to have your own ISBM number and it's all kind of labeled in there together. So that's another expense. So of course, if you go and buy a barcode plus an ISB, a number, there's bundles for that, or one bar code and 10 ISBM numbers, you know, now it's only $320 for 10 ISBNs and a whole barcode, which I don't know if that's gonna work for all 10 days be ends.
So you see where the system really becoming really, I mean, I thought editing was bad, but you throw in ISP in numbers and suddenly it's getting kind of expensive.
Jesper (38m 44s): Yeah. And then w I don't know, the more we talk about it, the more I just feel like I'm getting went. Maybe it's confirmation bias. I don't know. But I feel like I'm just getting more and more
Autumn (38m 55s): points in. What do you, how do you say that points into check board or whatever. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've taken off your boxes that yeah, you've made the right decision to go for a free one, huh? Yeah, because I, I just don't see the point of it.
Jesper (39m 9s): I, I, as I said, I understand it if you're a big publishing house, but none of us are, right? I mean
Autumn (39m 15s): we are like nimble and fast and flexible in the office, so we don't need that. All that stuff. I think so too. And I think after I finished like reading dozens of articles about ISB and numbers and why you should have a free one or why you should go and buy them. And it's funny, most of the articles I read were really pushing you to go and buy ISBNs numbers. Every argument kinda came down to like, well, it left me with this feeling. I'm like, yeah, I understand. Maybe that's some people still have this perception that you're less, less formal, less, you know really well put together less quality somehow if you are using a free ISBM number, but it's a lingering sense that is fading quickly.
Just like how everyone used to say, Oh, in books, they're not as good as traditionally published books. No one, I haven't heard anyone say that for years, so that's awesome. I think indie authors are finally shown and proven that we can write awesome book that publishers only wished they were smart enough to have gotten a chance to publish. But the same is true with ESPN numbers. This is something leftover from the brick and mortar days when publishing houses owned. Basically we're the gatekeepers to being able to publish.
Now they're being used differently. You use, I'm still to find books, but I mean now to have to have a different one for every single format. I mean, goodness, I couldn't have just added a different code at the end that a or a B or a numbered number that would say, Hey, this is the audio version, this is the ebook version, this is the paperback version of the same book. It's kind of just clunky and archaic and you know what? It's gonna change or basically be left behind because that's just the way things are going these days. And I agree with you, I just don't care.
Eventually they're going to have to catch up with how awesome indie publishing is
Jesper (41m 7s): I guess we just found our conclusion dare. So, uh, yeah, it's probably not worth buying any ISPN numbers. Next week we are gonna talk about feeling over whelmed. So, uh, just to you there,
Narrator (41m 19s): if you like what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to support the amwritingfantasy podcast. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join autumn and Yesper on patrion.com/amwritingfantasy for as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep the amwritingfantasy podcast going. Stay safe out there and see you next Monday.
Comments (0)
To leave or reply to comments, please download free Podbean or
No Comments
To leave or reply to comments,
please download free Podbean App.