The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 24 – Get rid of BORING chapters once and for all

Do you know the feeling of reading a book which really does have an engaging plot, yet each chapter just feels a bit... boring?

We share our 5 steps which every chapter should contain. Learn how to write your chapters in such a fashion that they keep the stakes high and the tension going. These 5 steps will get rid of boring chapters once and for all.

Grab our FREE writing course: https://www.amwritingfantasy.com/product/ultimate-fantasy-writers-starter-kit-short-course/  

Here's a link to the book (now also available as audio book), "How to write a fantasy book description": https://www.jesperschmidt.com/books/how-to-write-a-fantasy-book-description/ 

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Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Jesper (0s):
All right. Welcome to a amwritingfantasy and today we are going to talk a bit about chapter structure or maybe you want to call it seem structure. In this case we are talking about the same thing, but how do you create any gating chatter?

Autumn (21s):
If you're a fantasy author then you've come to the right place. My name is Autumn and together with Jesper we've published more than 20 novels. Our aim is to use our experience to help you writing marketing and selling books to fans all over the world. So we have of course a quick status update on how we're doing and we still have so many irons in the fire, but it is coming along well. First off is the world board building course and we're definitely making progress. I know. Yes, Paris would really busy recording and I'm still working on a few back end things.

Autumn (53s):
He's beating me this time.

Jesper (57s):
I'm pretty sure that was page because I have a like a humongous module coming up in the near future here, so I'm not going to be done very quickly with that. Let's see how it goes.

Autumn (1m 6s):
Yeah. At least a, a black or does, we're competitive. We're not super competitive with each other. We just keep each other going. And that's important. But, um, I think I'm going to beat you eventually on this, but I'm not that worried. I'll catch up.

Jesper (1m 19s):
Yeah, that's okay. I mean the, the, the, the, the model or you beat me, so just be very quick. It will be, we'll have it done, so that's good. Yeah. I don't think there's a reason to keep beating that one, but there's a lot of work like we've talked about before, so it was sort of still be enough work for at least to carry us into the fall and then we'll see you.

Autumn (1m 43s):
Absolutely. And there's still the backend, um, to build a website. So we'll get there eventually. And of course we have our books that we're working on the plotting book. Um, we have, uh, audio, audio release coming up, so we've done a lot of stuff going on.

Jesper (1m 60s):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And actually, uh, in, in that way am today's topic, you is sort of coming from the book. Uh, I guess I could say because we have the, well in a, in a planning book, you, you saw a need a chapter about how to plot a chapter as well. So we have an actually in the book we have a five steps that we believe and feel should make up the chapter to make it a good chapter. Uh, and basically what we thought to do here today was to give you those five steps and talk a bit about our thoughts on, on what those Facebook

Autumn (2m 39s):
Jane and why, why is building the way that it has. Absolutely. It kind of has a sneak peek at what is coming in, what we've been working on and a much bigger way than us just telling you, Hey, bill, he on a book. So I think we should definitely dive in with our five steps.

Jesper (2m 56s):
The first step is a, what we call a to go and buy character goal. We mean that in every chapter that character should have a goal on what it is that he or she wants to achieve. Because if there is no goal in the to, if there is also no momentum because we have no clue what the character's doing or why.

Autumn (3m 18s):
The interesting thing about this is you might be thinking as another, well what if my character doesn't find out through like halfway through the book or halfway through the chapter I should say what they want to, what is going to be the purpose of it? So how do you set up, you know, chapter where the character gets the important phone call, say halfway through, you know, it's not the first sentence. I think it's always nice to start with action, but what if that just doesn't work for this chapter because that doesn't always happen. So there's got to be a way to have a lead in like you still need to start with action.

Autumn (3m 51s):
You can have the character doing something else that's also important. This is like a sort of like a little mini story that happens before the really big reveal of what's going to happen to this chapter. So always make sure you start with some sort of purpose. Even if it's a smaller one. That way you get the action going and you don't leave a leader scratching their head going, please just let something happen right now. I'm so bored.

Jesper (4m 16s):
Yeah. And I think one of the points that we're making in the book about the character goal is the chapter doesn't really start until point number two, which we're going to come to in a second. So, so the coach goal is small, like you as the author needs to know what it is that the character wanted to see him. Because if you don't know that, it is very hard to convey to the readers will that, that this coach is trying to do this or that I may, maybe he or she is trying to uh, looking for, uh, an object or they are trying to find some information about something.

Jesper (4m 49s):
You know, it can be a ton of things. It could also be that they're trying to avoid getting physical or mentally harmed or, I dunno, it could be a ton of things. And it could also be, which we're going to go come back to it a bit later here, but could also be that the character starts out wanting one thing and then later in the chapter they want something else that could also be, but, but just the fact that you know what it is to care to once and what they are trying to achieve is what makes the difference. But the chapter itself in the way of thinking, what is actually happening doesn't really start until I'll point number two, which is the hook.

Autumn (5m 26s):
That's right. The hook is very important. This is what's going to keep the reader reading the next paragraph. So you think the hook, obviously when you write the first sentence of your novel, the first page, it's got to be a hook. It's got to grab the reader. Well, the bad news is every chapter should have at least a small kind of hook, the same type that draws them. You're in. So the reading the next sentence, the next sentence, the next sentence. So the first part of your chapter is always the hook. And that is where we talk about action. Or if it's dialogue, you know, the character walks into a new, they should walk into the middle of a conversation.

Autumn (6m 0s):
It's more engaging. If you're trying to figure out what's going on that you've already cut to the chase. And the important thing is you're not rehashing what just happened in the previous chapter. You know, hopefully the reader just read that they just flip to the page and the ones to start the next chapter. You don't want to start re sharing the same information unless there's a huge point of view, change, a huge time gap, something like that. Otherwise get right into it. The probably key words, she is his curiosity.

Autumn (6m 31s):
Uh, and by that I mean that if you can sort of wake a curiosity in the reader about that, they want to know, okay, this, this seems interesting, what's going on and what's going to happen. So, so if you can achieve that with your hook, uh, then you're definitely on the right path. Definitely. I, that's am really the whole point of the novel. It's, it's so the reader is so invested in the character that they're going to read anything cause they love it, which might not happen. It might. Hopefully it does. Curiosity is what you want to use to draw them in.

Autumn (7m 2s):
So that's really important in the earlier chapters of the novel. But with any chapter, if you want them to do, if you want to write a page Turner, if you want to write something that someone said, I stayed up till 5:00 AM even though I go to work at seven because I couldn't put it down. That's really the key, is keeping them curious to find out what happens next. And so that is how you develop your hook. And again, you should start it with action, with dialogue, with something going on, even if it's not the immediate point of the chapter, not the immediate goal of the character, but just so something is moving and happening and engaging.

Autumn (7m 37s):
All right. And uh, then Arthur the the hook. Then we have conflict and dilemma, which is our step number three. And of course now we've sort of caught the reader's attention and they, they, uh, hooked on what's gonna happen. And, and I don't know, maybe, maybe it also depends on how you look at it, but at least for me, even though it's fantasy and sometimes at least from a classic fantasy of you manufacture, she books reach a bit slow and a bit like, ah, okay, OK, that then we need to hear about the forest.

Autumn (8m 15s):
And then there was those types over there. It gets described in painful detail and so forth, which are for us, but, but the, the five punch structure that we have built here is more or less sort of almost like a thriller patient, you know, if we want this sort of twist or turn the pages and I want to see what's happened next, even though it's a fantasy novel, I see absolutely no reason why it shouldn't be a page Turner and that you really want to flip the wind and see what happens. So, so when we then get into conflict or dilemma, that's where we tried to build up the tension.

Autumn (8m 47s):
Absolutely. And that could be of course action. And I agree. I mean fantasy I think there are fight scenes, but there's no reason this is not something that you're just like whipping through. I love it when I hear like a reader went through 500 pages overnight. I mean that's just maybe only torturing people, but so actually that's obviously the first thing when you think of with, uh, something that's conflicted dilemma. So, you know, there could be sword fighting, there could be chasing means. There could be any of that. The character might not be in a life and death situation situation, but something should be happening.

Autumn (9m 21s):
So your hook has built to this much higher point where it's no longer curiosity but like, Oh my goodness, what's happening? But that's not the only type of conflict we're talking about here.

Jesper (9m 33s):
No, well, the thing is with, with conflict is that, um, there was a bit of cheating going on that we need to be mindful about us. S S the writer, uh, that we, that we don't cheat. And what, I mean that sounded a bit cryptic, but what I meant, what I mean by that is basically so you could say, okay, how do I make tension? Okay, I'll have something blow up. Or a dragon just appeared and then put the timer on fire. We just talked about game of Thrones before recording. Yes. And that's why that template came up into my mind.

Jesper (10m 4s):
But maybe attract, we just showed up and burnt the entire city down or something, you know? Well that's, that's all well and good. And of course that is tension. Uh, I mean something is happening, but the, the caveat here is that it's cheating because the tension and the co, the conflict and dilemma you need to build has to be built on basis of the character goal. So it has to be something that stands in the way of the character reaching their goal. Because only then is it a true conflict and dilemma for the character in the scene.

Jesper (10m 37s):
It's fine to, somebody attacked the city over there and that's very exciting. And of course that's, well a bit worrying. But if this character is not even going there and you're supposed to do something completely different over there and stuff, uh, in the, in the opposite direction, that wealth, maybe if he's a good hearted person who will probably be a bit worried about those people over there, but it doesn't stop the character in achieving her goal. And if it doesn't, then it's not a conflict and it's not a dilemma.

Autumn (11m 7s):
Exactly. That is really the point. So the driving does show up. It's got to stop the character from reaching the next step that is going to be moving the whole plot of the movie forward, or at least showing something really important to this novel. It can't just be something from left field that causes them to completely lose the goal unless of course the character, the chapter goal does change. Uh, that could be an interesting twist, but it has to be done on purpose, not just because you felt like draw writing in a dry again, which is really cool.

Autumn (11m 38s):
I met, but it can't be the only reason the dragon showed up.

Jesper (11m 43s):
We can always, always find a reason to put him in somewhere. Right? I mean, that's just, it has to be there. It's not the same without a dragon.

Autumn (11m 51s):
Absolutely. You can see where this is.

Jesper (11m 56s):
Yeah. All examples. I would recommend something to do with dragons that every, every single example I was gonna say. I think there's, yes, there's one in the am amwritingfantasy logo. So big surprise. Yeah, that's true. Okay. So I'm trying to, uh, put this a train wreck back on track here. So, so we have a character goal number one, the hook, number two, conflict and dilemma is number three. So there was that, the first three stepping stones to build a good chapter.

Jesper (12m 30s):
And then after conflict and dilemma number four, then we're going to get instant reaction and decision. And when we are talking about reaction and decision, it is incredibly easy for us as writers to sort of default into thinking, okay, so I've just put a conflict on and create a dilemma that standing in the way of the character's goal. So I guess the most obvious thing to do is that when I'm dealing with reaction and decision is that just that the character will find some way to deal with this conflict and dilemma that is now window way of achieving that goal, which is true.

Jesper (13m 12s):
And, and of course the character should be doing that in step number four, they should be thinking about how can I overcome this challenge that is now standing in my way? How can I find a new solution? But I think an element that is very often overlooked is that the character will also have an emotional reaction to what just happened. It's gonna frustrate them or make them sad or I don't know, but, but it's going to generate some sort of emotional reaction within the character and I, and it's so easy to sort of forget about that in, in, in writing about how, Oh, then he makes this new plan and he just going to do this and that, blah, blah, blah.

Jesper (13m 51s):
It's that emotional impact is very, very, very important because it also shows characterization to the Rebbe and they understand where the character's coming from. And they get a deeper feeling for the character. But all that said, I also have to say, on the other hand, you need to be careful not to overdoing that emotional reaction because if you do to counter can sort of end up, let's say he's sad about what happened or something he can get, he can come across like that. He sort of feeling sorry for himself, which if you do that just like twice in the novel, I pretty sure the reader will think that.

Jesper (14m 28s):
Well he said what's, I don't want to read about him, give them the emotional impact but, but sort of co pack it into all the other stuff that is happening and just sort of added a bit without going too much into detail about how sad he is about this and that. And then I wanted to remind him of how he lost his father when he was five years old and blah, blah, blah. You know? Yeah. That's not gonna work, but I think that's why

Autumn (14m 52s):
I have all my female characters get angry. It was only gets in their way because they're all kind of fire recharged. Take on. So that was the other thing, just because you have, you want to include that emotional reaction, cause I agreed this is, this is what will make the reader start really relating and caring because maybe they've never had a dragon land in front of them that really pissed them off, but they had something that stopped them and got in their way and they wanted to get around it through it, over it. They understand that emotion and so this is how you get the reader to relate to the character.

Autumn (15m 24s):
But again, don't go over the top. You don't want to have drama, drama Queens, you know, stubbing their toe in crying a river. This is not the type of emotional reaction, but anger something there that they also have to deal with as well as getting through the dilemma, making a decision and deciding how they're going to conquer and achieve their goal despite this big setback. So you can tell this has gone from, you know, a hook that gets them reading curiously to achieve this goal. Something that happens, a conflict, which is exciting.

Autumn (15m 56s):
It's enchanting up. The tension we've gone to now reaction, which is more emotional as well as maybe mental, maybe physical, maybe they have to solve an actual problem, but it's kind of really getting inside the car. The reader is like starting to really just like get excited as well as feel this. These are all really good things that you want to see happening. Cause that all leads up to step five.

Jesper (16m 19s):
Yeah. And now we have the disaster. So, so in, in um, in step four we put emphasis on showing that the coach is pro active because that then that sort of leads them into to the disaster, which is our step number five. Maybe coming back to the thriller, a example here, you know, that ending the chapters with cliffhangers is a really, really good thing. You know, something is that it does not mean that you have to end chapters with the, again, things growing up or dragging this a PSI of know where every, you know, all that stuff.

Jesper (16m 53s):
It doesn't have to be that. It can also just be that a very interesting question is, or print, you know, something is now all of a sudden in doubt that, well, okay, I thought this guy was doing a, but maybe he is not doing a maybe yes, an ulterior motive or something. You know that there can be many subtle ways to do a cliffhanger where the reader, it's just ending up in a situation where they think what's going to happen now because that's where we want to leave them at the end of the chapter. So they uh, I bet like at 10 o'clock in the evening and actually they want to go to sleep, but you are going to rub them up.

Jesper (17m 30s):
They're sleeping too because they're gonna say, ah, just one more chapter and that's where we want them.

Autumn (17m 34s):
That is, we are going to just draw them until the end of the next chapter. They're going to keep going. But this is definitely, it doesn't always have to be a life and death peril, but that isn't awesome. Cliffhanger where you want to flip the patients. He has a character survives but they could come up with new information which is always interesting or find out something was betrayed or just something else that they weren't really expecting. And then you have the character reacting. You want to know how they're gonna deal with it. You can have that asking a big question or trying to find the results to something.

Autumn (18m 5s):
And the answer again is the next chapter and you just of want to split it so that they have to find out what happens next to turn the page. So now just like every chapter is going to have a hook just like the beginning of the book, well every chapter is also going to have a little bit of an ending that makes you want to turn the page, makes the reader wants in the page. I always say and the chapter was as much enthusiasm that you want to keep writing the next chapter that's going to be what it's going to draw the reader into. Wanting to at least go to the next sentence, which is going to make them curious cause it's going to be a hook.

Autumn (18m 37s):
You got to start the cycle all over again and the next thing they know it is five in the morning and they haven't slept away, but they finished your book and hopefully will really re hopefully leave a really good review.

Jesper (18m 49s):
Yeah, yeah. But, but that's, that's the neat thing with these five steps is that one sort of leads to the other and once you get to number five, your disaster is automatically going to give you the next character go. So now this happened and now there's a new goal because the character then that wants to achieve something and you can sort of repeat the whole cycle again and you sort of repeat those cycles throughout. Right. And every time to build some on the one that came before it and you just am yeah, you go go like that. Uh, I would say though that these this was sort of the breakdown at the chapter level in the how to plot a level book that we're going to release later this year.

Jesper (19m 26s):
There is like whole sections of that that sort of breaks down the entire novel into some pillows. There were different things needs to happen. These five steps might, might sound sort of like a very am organic pants away of writing, you know? Okay. So I'll just take those five step running through and the next after the next step, the next step for them. So forth. And then I have a level, but I'm just putting that caveat out there because there's actually a lot more planning behind the scenes here on in terms of building up the structure that these that these chapters sits inside.

Jesper (19m 58s):
Uh, but that's the way too much detail to get into here now. But at least on a, on a chapter level, if you are finding it challenging to write chapters or scenes that feels engaging and feels exciting and then try out these five steps. So step number one, character goal. Step number two of the hook. Step number three, conflict or dilemma. Step number four, we action and decision. And step number five, the disaster. And I can almost guarantee you just putting these five steps into your mind and thinking about them.

Jesper (20m 29s):
We'll generate a better chapter.

Autumn (20m 32s):
It will. You will find that it'll help the pace of your novel, the reading and yes, there's a lot more to an entire novel than this, but this is a great way of setting up a chapter so that you create that engaging feeling that you draw the reader in and they keep reading and they don't put it down. This is a good

Jesper (20m 48s):
stepping stone that'll get you started and it'll get you, even if it's a small chapter in more of an intro versus the climax, which obviously this is going to be easy to use, the climax, it'll get you going with every chapter. They keep just a little bit more engaging and that'll really help you along. Exactly. Maybe we should mention because at the point of recording this, the am that plotting book is not edited yet. It's not out yet. But uh, if you think that you might be interested in it, then I would go on to amwritingfantasy.com and just sign up for you.

Jesper (21m 25s):
You can download one of our freebies that are on the page there. Or if you go to the blog section, there's also a am assign a place there where you, where you can put in your email address. But I mentioned that just because if you do give us your email address by one of those sign up forms, you will be on our list and you will automatically get notified at the appointed time when released the books on them. Then you can pick it up. So if you're worried about getting about it by the time that it comes out, because it will be several months from now, sign up for the email list by our amwritingfantasy outcome and we will let you know at least the good point is it's written where does editing it.

Jesper (22m 3s):
So I'm pretty much all the way there. We'll get there very soon and I think if we wanted to, we could probably push it out in a month or so, but that, but the one thing just like the small thing that there is about it is that we want to include an example outline as well show from start to finish. What does it look like when you apply all the sort of the chief things that are in this step by step guide. We wanted them to apply that on our first book, one in our new series so that you can basically download the plot and see what it looks like with all data, sort of the mechanical S behind the scenes flooding structure in place, um, to use as inspiration, but also to sort of deepen the learning experience.

Jesper (22m 45s):
Uh, but we're not gonna develop that plot until our work. The thing is done and as I've just said in the beginning of the video, that will be built on dumb until the fall, I think. So that also means that it's several months away before we, we'll start promoting the book, which means that we had finished the book and release it until that is done. So yeah, essentially the book is done, but it's not gonna be released anytime soon unless we figure out time travel. But yeah, probably it's going to be working on definitely pretty Bob.

Jesper (23m 17s):
We'll get it. That's another conversation. All right. So anything else we need to share with them? No, I think we are all set. So good luck with your plotting. Leave comments to let us know how your chapters are going. We want to hear if this helped you. Excellent. See you next Monday. Bye bye.