The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 23 – Can I increase the price of my eBook?

The pricing of eBooks is an ongoing conversation among authors that might never reach a conclusion.

Some say that a low price devaluate the books, whereas others swear that a eBooks should be cheap because of the online distribution mechanism.

I had a talk with Joseph Malik, who didn't just succeed in making his first novel, Dragon's Trail, a Kindle Top 100 Bestseller in four countries, but also decided to increase his prices to $9,99.

Learn what effect this pricing strategy has on his book sales and associated revenue.

You can find Joseph here: http://www.josephmalik.com/ 

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Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Jesper (0s):
If you were at a fantasy author, you've come to the right place. My name is Jesper and uh, together with autumn we published more than 20 books. And our aim here is to use our experience to help you in publishing, marketing and selling books have fans all over the world. So today we are going to talk a bit about one of these topics and that is especially around how you should price your ebook.

Jesper (31s):
All right, man, for the first time, actually, I think we have a returning guest here on am amwritingfantasy and I'm talking to Joseph today to help me. So Joseph what have you been up to since last time we talked?

Joseph (43s):
Hey, thanks. Jesper I don't think we've talked since I released my sequel, which would've been in September, late September of last year. I released my second book. Uh, the new magic.

Jesper (56s):
Yeah, because I think last time we talked, you only have the first ebook I wasn't there, so that's right. Yeah, yeah.

Joseph (1m 2s):
If I were talking about sales last time and um, yeah, so that we did, we did that. That's second books are hard I think in a trilogy. So it hasn't done as well as we had expected. But there are some, some very strange things happening with the numbers that we haven't got figured out yet. And we recently learned that it was very heavily pirated right at the beginning. Um, writing launch it launched into the top 50, uh, Evan fantasy new releases on Kindle and it got, uh, uh, mainstream backing and got mentioned in like Gizmodo, I think he would think of verge and some other pretty big websites.

Joseph (1m 45s):
And was it, did, it started off really great. And the good reads reviews are pretty strong and there's a tremendous number of them. But the Amazon reviews, there haven't been that many and we're not seeing a lot of sales. What we're seeing a lot more reviews and a much higher percentage of good reads reviews, then sales. Um, and we're seeing a lot of social media traffic as well, but not the sales to back it up. And then we recently found out that it was, uh, it was featured on a, uh, on a, on a pretty major piracy site.

Joseph (2m 16s):
That's since been taken down. So we're, we're kind of recovering from that. Ebook fairly sure. We are ripped off, so yeah, it happens.

Jesper (2m 26s):
Yeah. Unfortunately, yes, I do. It's just part of the author life at the, yeah.

Joseph (2m 30s):
It's just, it's, it's, it's fine. People are reading it and that's great. Yeah. Sorry. It is a second. Ebook and so it's been, you know, it's a lot darker. It's the second act. It's been getting very responses from people, but they chose a protagonist in a less than flattering light because in the second one, second ebook can be Dennis to. Uh, no second act things start to go wrong for him, so that's fine. That's fine.

Jesper (2m 57s):
All right. Yeah. Well I hope it'll, it'll pick back up for you, but, but, uh, well I, I think one of the, what we wanted to get into here, it was a bit around the pricing because, and actually this is sort of a often debated topic and yet you don't want the community in general that are those who swear by that you should price your books cheap, uh, because it's an ebook and others are saying that you are insane if you do so because the books are much of a much higher value than maybe a dollar or $2 or whatever.

Jesper (3m 30s):
So that's sort of where we want to get into a bit here today. And you have some thoughts on this. I know Joseph

Joseph (3m 37s):
yeah, sounds great. So we'd first started off pricing my first book, dragons trail at two 99, I think when it first released back in 2016 and it did fairly well. And um, uh, two 99 and then it got like a couple of book clubs at 99 cents. Um, yeah, I've got an international and then, uh, and then a USB port ebook and after that, I think we raised the price to three 99 or four 99. And we found that there was, uh, no, there was no decrease in sales when we did that.

Joseph (4m 9s):
And then about a year later it had kept selling me. We had moved the price to five 99, I think we sold it five 99, all through 2018 and it just continued to sell really well at five 99. And then when we released the second book, when we released the new magic, we did a, we had one more 99 cent promotion with the new magic. And I forget who we did it through, but it was, I don't remember who did it.

Joseph (4m 40s):
Anyway. Um, and after that we decided to go for broke and we raised the prices of both ebook into nine 99. We understood that if it, you know, if it didn't work, we could move her back to five 99 and just call it, you know, and, and, and just calling it a marketing exploration. But the damnedest thing happened, which is that after that spike from the 99 cent promotion came down, the sales actually went up at nine 99 over five 99 not by much, couple more books a day.

Joseph (5m 17s):
And overall the trend line has been higher at nine 99 then it wasn't five 99 and it's taken us all a lot. We've had to do a lot of market research to figure out how this is actually happening. But there were a lot of things going for these books the way that we did them that may not work for other indie authors, but it might work for some if they're following a particular business model. And I think we talked about this last time too. I'm a fan of fantasy that, um, that I'm not really doing this the way that everybody else is.

Joseph (5m 51s):
You know, I, my, my release cycle is about two years. You know, I put top dollar into cover and editing and, uh, you know, type setting and proofreading and everything. Um, and I try to put out books that are comparable and competitive with the books that the big five publishers are putting out. In fact, I just, I just did a book signing at a Barnes and noble at a fantasy convention a couple of months ago. And the Barnes and noble staff, we're looking at my hardcovers and asking who my company oxblood books they were asking who walks board books was an immigrant.

Joseph (6m 30s):
They thought that we were in front of a, of a big five publisher because they were turning the ebook over. They couldn't believe it. It wasn't something that was made cause they've got indie authors in there, you know, uh, doing signups from time to time I guess. And they would, I believe this is an independent Bookman Ross. Exactly the same. The only thing we don't have, we don't have like the metal stamped covering, you know, though that door, the embossed cover or what have you. Um, but it's, you know, were, so we're putting out really high quality product and we put a lot of money into the production value of it.

Joseph (7m 1s):
That's kind of a this start point with all of this. I think that there's an expectation of a certain level of value in craft at that $10 Mark. And something that's really interesting about that is that when we started really getting into it, cause I'd belonged to a million to a number of readers, forums and readers groups like on Facebook and stuff, I participate in these groups as a reader. And in a lot of these groups, they don't even know that I'm an author.

Joseph (7m 32s):
I never told him. I just, I mean they're just doing market research, you know, fantasy fans or what have you. And there is a, there's a readership out there that will not buy books under a certain price point. And they are absolutely adamant. They don't read Indi fantasy. They just don't, and I'm not saying that they're right for it, but it's, it's just really interesting. They, they, you know, we see this divide between indie authors and big five authors who missed it.

Joseph (8m 2s):
Used to be is getting fuzzier now. But there's definitely a divide out there between readers are independent fantasy and readers of big five fantasy and the people who buy, you know, fantasy by household name authors, uh, generally are not going to read a 99 cent fantasy or two 99 fantasy what have you. They don't. And I think to them the money is not as big of a deal as the time that it takes out of their day, you know?

Jesper (8m 31s):
No, yeah, yeah.

Joseph (8m 33s):
10 bucks. They care about how those four or five, six hours, you know, um, are going to be spent, are they going to enjoy that time? Because I think that there's a subset of people out there. In fact, I know there is because frankly I'm one of them and my, my time is worth more than 10 bucks an hour.

Jesper (8m 49s):
Yeah, absolutely. Well, of course we have to sort of, uh, let's say pay respect to the people of world who don't have much money to go by. But, but, but, but that said what I meant, what we did was that I just want to repeat one to preempt too. When I'm about to say so nobody could comes out before, but my point is just that whether we are selling a book for $1, $2, $5, $10 in my mind at least it is still the am chief for ebook. It'll just like $10 it's, it's two cups of coffee or something, you know, nothing that I have to sort of preempt preempted that.

Jesper (9m 24s):
I do understand that some people of the world don't have $10 to spend on the bookstore or respect for that. But, but just in general, at least I, I don't think that that price in itself should make much of a difference as to whether people wants to buy a program. But where I think it might make a difference is if you are first starting out and you are struggling with activity, getting your name out there, a price point of nine 99, I think we'll work counterproductive for you because it's going to be very, very hard to sell it. But if you already have a, a certain leadership, uh, following you, then yeah, then I can see it working because then you can push the ebook to current readers as well and it'll bump up the rankings on Amazon, et cetera.

Jesper (10m 4s):
And then Amazon will start promoting it for you, uh, mighty algorithm and so forth. And, and then it might sort of work.

Joseph (10m 10s):
Yes. And my first book sold spectacularly and we were very fortunate. It's got I think 120 I haven't looked in a while, 120 or something reviews on Amazon at this point. We've sold, I don't even know well over 10,000 copies. It's also got its received mainstream critical acclaim from, you know, publishers weekly and yeah, he said some big fantasy sites as well. And so it's got that kind of credit behind it. So we can, we can push it at nine 99 there's kind of, again, there's a sort of expectation behind it.

Jesper (10m 41s):
Did you have any sort of the feedback from your current readers? So when you raised a plat price to nine 99, was there any feedback or anybody complaining about it or anything?

Joseph (10m 50s):
No, I got one message on my, uh, on my website from somebody who had misunderstood something that I was saying about marketing earlier when I said I wasn't going to drop my prices again because he then saw it on an edit 99 cents sale. And I'm definitely going to keep doing that. I mean, if I get a BookBub for God's sake, I'm going to drop my price at nine 99. I propped up my price and 99 cents coming. This is kind of what you do. But, um, so another thing that has happened that's been really interesting about this is that we've seen our paperback orders go up since we pushed the price to nine 99.

Joseph (11m 27s):
We're now selling more paperbacks and we're selling, we're also selling hardcovers as well. And we're seeing, uh, we're seeing orders from bookstores, from independent bookstores. And I think that part of that, I think part of what's going on is that, I mean, I know that when I go into a bookstore, if there's a, if there's a book that I haven't seen before, uh, I'll, I'll look it up real fast, you know, just punch in my phone and look it up and see, uh, you know, and yeah, well look at reviews and see what the author is about and what have you.

Joseph (11m 57s):
And I think that when people do that, uh, and they see that the, when they see the bullying and then they see the reviews and then they see that it's, you know, it's nine 99 for an ebook, I mean, $7 more for the paperback. And it's not that big of a deal. But you spend 10 bucks for 10 bucks for a book, you're probably gonna spend, you know, 17. I mean, people, when people buy a book, you know, they're not, they're not just buying something to spend. When people buy an actual hardcover book, you're, look, you're buying a work of art that you can also interact with.

Joseph (12m 28s):
You know, that's what it comes down to us interact with a piece of art. Um, it's not just, it's not just a book, it's not just a story, you know? And so when you give them, again, give them that really nice cover and he gave them that, the beautiful typesetting and have your paper and everything for this, you know, I, I think it's I the thing in front of them. You know, people like books I love, I love having a book in front of me. And so I don't know, again, that's, that's kinda where I'm at with it. And you're talking about people who don't have a lot of money for books. And you know, I was grabbing earlier about having, you know, and we'd gotten pirated and for God's sake, if you can't afford one of my books, seriously, if you can't afford one, all books deaminate just message me.

Joseph (13m 10s):
I'll send you a book funnel link and I'll send you a copy of the book. I have no problem doing that. Just, you know, seriously. Just don't, don't pirate it. Just as let me know. Say, Hey man, I'm a student. Hey, I can't afford nine 99 for a ebook, you know, and yeah, more than happy to do that. I have no problem with that. Yeah, that's, that's, that's basically it. And there's no reason to steal anything for God's sake. And there's always gonna get pissed off then what books are, are, are, are expensive. I'm not trying to be exclusive, I'm not trying to cater to a specific crowd.

Joseph (13m 40s):
I just happen to think that, you know, the amount of work that I've put into the books, again, if it takes you, like you were saying earlier, yeah. I mean, if it takes you a tissue four or five hours to read a book, you know, I can, I can read a paper back in two, three hours, but again, for 10 bucks it comes out to $5 an hour, $3 an hour. You know, that's not, that's, that's, that's fabulous entertainment right there, man. I mean, that's, that's, that's a lot of time that you get for spending that money. And I don't mind buying books because again, for me, that's, that's, that's money. Well spent as a good use of my time. And so, and I, I think same thing, it takes me two years to write a book and there's, there's a lot of time and a lot of effort involved in that and I kind of want to recoup that, you know?

Joseph (14m 21s):
I mean,

Jesper (14m 21s):
yeah. So, so when, when you were raised your pricing from nine 99 compared to to what you have had before, how long ago is that, you know, how, how much, how much data do you have sort of two to deem that it's actually been successful to erase the price?

Joseph (14m 37s):
I've got about, I think it was about three months ago.

Jesper (14m 39s):
Okay. So the last three months have been selling better than at the previous price point.

Joseph (14m 45s):
It's fallen back to about almost exactly where it was at the previous price point. Am

Jesper (14m 51s):
right. But wise it gives

Joseph (14m 52s):
more than new wise. It's fantastic. Revenue wise, it's much better. Yeah. At nine 99 I mean, you're making, making $7 a ebook. Yeah. No, I mean if you're selling, you sell five books a day at that, you know, with two books out, you sell them, sell five books just on Amazon. Even all my numbers look like on the other ones you have to just do it there. There's some of them are net 60 so I haven't got, I haven't got a trend line for, for the uh, for the other retailers.

Jesper (15m 19s):
No, no, no, no. Right. But it also gives you sort of, because you have that higher price point, it gives you a bigger margin that you can play with when it comes to a running apps and stuff because you wanted to spend a bit more and still make it profitable where those who sell it for two 99, you know, that's very tough. A marketing budget that you have to spend there.

Joseph (15m 41s):
AMS ads were one of the reasons that we considered going to nine 99. I'll wear the Amazon ads but they call it now, but they were, they were killing us and uh, and we're now able to compete at a completely different level. Two, I'm able to get conversions now, which is really weird. I mean we'll get conversions now on some of the top tier keywords out there at nine 99 people won't buy at the exact same ad. All I did was raise the price and, and the, the, the click through rate and the conversion rate on the on premium keywords is, is much better at nine 99.

Joseph (16m 17s):
Um, and again we're seeing this primarily for the first book in the series though, not for the second. And I think that's because it's got, you know, over a hundred reviews and it's gotten, you guys got that. It's got the blurbs from, from, from mainstream critics and what have you. So you're able to kind of able to play at that at that level. I think that that's the thing right there that if you want to be doing this, that's the thing, you need to be gunning for first. You know you need to be able to get that, to get that book out there that's going to, you should concentrate not on selling the book at 10 bucks put on on producing a book and getting it to the point where it can sustain itself at that.

Joseph (16m 56s):
I think that's, I think that's, that's, that's more the key than anything else and took him use it took almost three years to get, get the ebook to the Puerto Rican stay afloat at, at, at at this price point.

Jesper (17m 6s):
Yeah. That's what I would think as well. You know, if you could build a ebook episode that it has enough reviews on it, it's selling well, it sits well in the ranking and then you raise the price them, then I can see that it could work. Or as I said early on, if you already have a very established name and you have a big leadership or ready, then you can probably launch it that at that price as well. But, but yeah, unless you have those things in place, I think my advice to those of you watching and listening would be don't, don't start out by pricing your books and nine 99 thinking that that's the new one out in a lot of margin, which of course you will, but you will still love books.

Jesper (17m 43s):
So you're going to be start at zero.

Joseph (17m 45s):
Right. And, and again, you know, coming back to trying to say this, not getting in trouble with anybody, but coming back to what I see in, in these readers forums and looking at what, looking at what is expected from readers who buy books at 10 bucks a pop or more. Now you've got to really have your ducks in a row. And again, if you're somebody that they've never heard of, yeah. You really have to have, you've really got to have some kind of like some of the tips, I'm kind of like social proof behind it, right?

Joseph (18m 19s):
You've got to have, so yeah, I don't know. This is what we've been doing lately and it seems to be working, you know, fairly well and you don't remember, rankings aren't great. I mean, I'm hovering probably around anywhere between 50 and a hundred thousand on the Amazon rankings. And sometimes, sometimes they'll go by and I'll only saw a couple of books a little fall down into the 150 toward a thousand range. And then the next day we'll sell five, six, 10 bucks and we'll pop, you know, built, built. They'll pop right back up again at nine 99.

Joseph (18m 51s):
You know, like I was saying to me, even five books a day, uh, it's almost a thousand dollars a month. This, I mean, it, it, it has a really fast, your margins get a lot better at that, at that point. So I don't know. I guess it's a way to do it and I don't. Yeah, I have a lot of people asking me all the time for, uh, for advice on, on marketing, advice, on writing and advice on what have you and I on this. I'm going to tell you right now, I don't know what the hell I'm doing.

Joseph (19m 21s):
I just, I know we gotta, you know, my wife and I spit all ideas we have thrown around and well maybe this'll work. Maybe that'll work, let's try this. Let's try that out. My God that worked. So, and this might tell 'em this, this might, this might run its course, this could be, you know, I, I keep expecting to wake up tomorrow and sell notebooks and then sell no books for two weeks and they have the thing just have exhausted as market I and I don't think that that's what happens, but I'm, I'm totally prepared for that.

Joseph (19m 53s):
I just know I'm prepared for anything that happens good or bad in this, in this environment because it's just so dynamic and I'm prepared for anything that happens in this environment to be transitory or somehow provisional and pretty much many anything that happens can be a fluke. You know, the fact that we selling it all at nine 99 could be a fluke. It could be just some freak occurrence of, of, of, of, of market placement. And, and demographic interest at the moment, you know?

Jesper (20m 23s):
Yeah. Well probably not, but, but I, but I think that the funny thing about marketing books, and I mean, of course you can, uh, you can watch the channels like this one or listen to our podcast and stuff like that. And we tried to share everything that we learn at least so that other people can replicate it by that. But I think apart from that, what is important to sort of understand is that when you're marketing things, you have to do what you're talking about here. You have to test different theories out and just see what works because as long as you are, I mean, of course you can, you can do one like everybody else does.

Jesper (20m 57s):
You can, you can run the Amazon ads and, uh, and yeah, I think at this point in time, at least if you want to be competitive with Amazon apps, that bits are quite expensive and you have to pay quite a lot, uh, which makes it sort of pop type lists for any new authors at least because you don't have the budget to compete. Am

Joseph (21m 19s):
that I'm going to, I'm going to argue with you on that one, my friend. Because there's, in marketing, there's a concept of a loss leader, right? Where are you? You're going to have to spend money at the outset in order to establish your brand in order to establish yourself. You're gonna lose money. Many and you know, it comes down to a to here in the States. Maybe we talked about this last time, you know, but, um, I've gotten some flack for how much money we spend producing the books and, uh, I mean our launch costs are probably four or $5,000 a book.

Joseph (21m 56s):
Um, by the time everything is, is, is factor in including all of the, you know, including all of the ads and everything might be higher than that. And, and while that seems prohibitively high here in America anyway, the average startup cost for a small business in this country is $25,000 right now. So, you know, launching a book for $5,000, even with even, and even the cost of, you know, incorporating, starting a business, all these things, you know, hiring an accountant, um, hiring, you're, you're, you're your, your business development consultant.

Joseph (22m 32s):
I don't have graphic artists, all these things, web designer, all that stuff that it takes to get the, get to actually get your company launched in to to launch these things, you know, perfect. We also have you classes, writing classes or mentorship or uh, going to writing conventions and getting, you know, some kind of, some kind of study in, in, in writing, whether it's up, whether it's formal education or whether you're self-educated, you know, and, and even the investment in yourself, the time that it takes to learn, you know, to actually learn the craft of writing those years that it takes me, you can still be, don't put that into monetary terms.

Joseph (23m 8s):
If you break it down. I don't like to, cause it depresses me, um, like about logging pillow the time and put it in the butt. But even so, I mean it's, it's a pretty good deal. I mean, launching a book for that amount of money. And the other thing is that, you know, even with that $25,000 average startup cost here, here, here in the States, you know, your business is expected to lose money. It's usually, I mean, it's typical for two to three years to go by before you see a profit. I mean, you operate by taking out loans.

Joseph (23m 41s):
I do not recommend that anybody do this. When you're launching a book for God's sake, don't do. Generally when you launch a small business, you take out, you take out loans and you use the loans to pay yourself and to pay for your business and keep it afloat until you get the revenue coming in a year or two or three years later. Also, most small businesses fail, but there's this expectation getting back to AMS ads and Amazon, there's this expectation that you're immediately going to start making money as soon as you put your book out there.

Joseph (24m 14s):
And that's just not, that's just not how it happens. And I think that when you are building your business model, you need to look at it realistically and realize that, Hey, it's gonna cost me money to get my book out there. The advertising, the promotional and heavy, I'm going to lose money on this. And there's also another thing that Amazon had to do if you spend enough on them, and I, I've done this in the past and I don't do it anymore, but with, with AMS ads you can spend, you can spend a lot of money on AMS ads and get your ebook way up in the rankings so that people will see it and bio organically and then you're a cost.

Joseph (24m 56s):
Your average cost to see how you're a cost is going to go through the ceiling, but you're going to be picking up more sales that are going to offset that in the long run. Um, because once you get into that top 100 of that top 50 of the top 20 in, in, in your genre and your subcategory, then you're going to improve your visibility and people are going to be just going through, they're not going to be clicking on. Your ads are going to just find it on their own. And so there's a model in there as well, but it takes, you're gonna you have to be willing to lose money to gamble on, on, on doing that.

Joseph (25m 27s):
And we played around with that at cheaper price points, uh, and it worked really well. But again, yeah, when you're talking about, you know, talking about $10 a book, then the sale, when you don't get a sale can actually, you know, when you, okay. So when your sales start to go down, then it starts to actually make a dent. Yeah. And the other thing, last thing to realize that I'm not doing this, you know, I'm not doing this professionally right now. This is not, this is not my career. I'm not making enough on this right now to, you know, retire on or what have you.

Joseph (25m 59s):
Um, and I think that if I was, I might be going about this little bit differently right now. You know, I've got a, uh, got a job right now that I really enjoy and I'm able to do this and you know, kind of as a, as, as a, as a dedicated hobbyist and they kind of play games with and see what works and what doesn't. So I have, uh, uh, uh, um, I'm extremely fortunate to be able to do that. So again, if you're, if you're trying to, you're trying to do this and be a full time author, I would not recommend trying anything that I'm doing right now.

Joseph (26m 32s):
Um, sole means of income that just would not recommend doing this. So, um,

Jesper (26m 37s):
uh, I mean, I, I think because I, I'm, I'm fully on board with the fact that your first book can can function as a loss leader and that sort of thing. But, but the way I view it is that if you struggle strugglers fullback time, maybe a year or two, you could place bets on Amazon ads that will actually get your sales directly that were perfectly reasonable bits. You know, maybe you could bid like 20, 30 cents per click and you would get to scale. Nowadays if you want that sale, you need to bid maybe close to a dollar.

Jesper (27m 8s):
It's just in all honesty, unless you have a price high price pipe, like like nine 99 for a ebook, if you're selling it for two $99 99 cents I mean of course you could take a loss leader, but, but most people who's just starting out, they cannot sustain spending $3,000 a month on Amazon ads, $100 in return in sales. That's just not working.

Joseph (27m 28s):
It's absolutely not. Absolutely not. You absolutely can't. And you're right there. Her premium keywords out there right now. I mean, I think game of Thrones is going for, I mean over $2 right now. Um, you know, and with the new bid structure as well, working plus up your bid by up to 100%, you know, you can be paying equally getting $3 on that, which is saying that is insane. I mean even at nine 99 if you're bidding three bucks, I mean, you're going to need game.

Joseph (27m 60s):
You're a 50% conversion rate and your click throughs to make that. I don't know anybody, I just don't, I mean maybe somebody out there is doing it for God to give you our man contact me. I will hire you to ride my, uh, to, to write my copy. So,

Jesper (28m 17s):
but yeah, I think everybody ebook.

Joseph (28m 22s):
Yeah.

Jesper (28m 26s):
All right. But, but I think for me the main, because autumn and I have also been debating sort of the price point for, for our future books and we all, we are also gonna sort of crank up the prices a bit compared to what our previous book sells for. But I think for me the key takeaway for, for those watching and listening is really that am that this might be a strategy worth considering once you have a bit of creaminess to your name and, and your, your, you're selling a certain amount of books already. Then sort of dumb sort of just fall into the trap of thinking, well, I've always sold sold at four 99 so I should probably just continue doing that because apparently I'm sailing, you know, tried testing out and do what Joseph had done here.

Jesper (29m 4s):
Trying to crank up the price and see what happens. You can always lower it again, but if it keeps selling at a high price, you'll be still could but to do it right. So, uh, for me I think that's the, that's the takeaway here. All right, cool. Is there anything else we need to cover? Joseph

Joseph (29m 20s):
yeah, actually I just remembered that one of the catalysts for pushing the price up was that good reads, give it a really high ranking on is Hugo recommendations list. And when that was happening, um, our sales, we're doing really well. And again, it gave it that, that kind of credibility again, when you, when you, when you went and clicked on, when you did a Google search for it popped up and I think it ended up at white number 25 on good reads. You go recommendations list, which was just phenomenal. So again, that kind of, that kind of, uh, that, that verification validation, you know, I was in there too.

Jesper (29m 56s):
Yeah. So basically if something like that happens, then that could also be a trigger whereby you should think, maybe I'm just gonna raise the price for a while. He used to see you because, you know, if you're getting treatments like that, that, that, that's what I have. Right. So,

Joseph (30m 8s):
yeah. Yeah. And that just suddenly you, sorry, I just remembered that that was, that was one of the, one of the things that we were like, you know, let's, let's see what happens.

Jesper (30m 17s):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, cool.

Joseph (30m 20s):
Jesper fantastic, man. Thank you. It's great talking

Jesper (30m 23s):
and it was great talking to Joseph. So I wish you best of luck continuously would selling books at nine 99 and hopefully you're going to get a lot of revenue from that app. Your hope. Thanks a lot. Joseph cheers. Take care.